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Posted August 21, 2006 by publisher in Cuba Human Rights

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I pose this question so it will serve as a discussion regarding the governments running the two islands.

The US has “occupied” Puerto Rico since 1902 when we “acquired” it after we won the Spanish American war.

Fidel Castro has ran Cuba since January 1, 1959.

Who is better off, the Cuban people or the Puerto Rican people?

Would Puerto Ricans rather live in Cuba or would Cubans rather live in Puerto Rico. This does not mean that Cubans can come to the US mainland once they live in Puerto Rico. This discussion is solely about people native to the island. I am not talking about foreigners or exiles.

So, let this discussion be about the good and the bad regarding the US government and the Cuban government specifically as it relates to the people native to the islands.

Remember, Puerto Rico has no representation in the US Congress. It is simply a territory of the US. Cubans have free health care and other government subsides. The Puerto Ricans have personal freedoms. I would like to see comments about these and other differences.

  1. Follow up post #1 added on August 21, 2006 by La Ventanita

    Being the child of Cuban exiles, and having been born and raised in Puerto Rico, I can tell you that your question is moot.  There is no comparison, and no price on personal freedoms.  Democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press cannot be bought with “free” healthcare.

    Puerto Rico is better off, and sadly many Puerto Ricans have no clue as to exactly how good they have it in the island.


  2. Follow up post #2 added on August 21, 2006 by J. Perez

    The comments posted by La Ventanita are true with respect to personal freedoms. However, the “no comparison” does not end there, Cuba is an autonomous nation, the direction their leaders have taken it notwithstanding, Puerto Rico is a protectorate of the U.S.A.


  3. Follow up post #3 added on August 22, 2006 by observer

    is it possible to talk about personal freedoms without national autonomy? i think not!


  4. Follow up post #4 added on August 22, 2006 by Ralph

    La Ventanita you hit the nail on the head,Freedom is sacrosanct feeling in
    any matter: freedom of speech,freedom of movement,freedom of association,
    Free and Fair election of the government,free to recall “bad"elected government and so on and so forth.The answer to the publisher’s question
    is beyond question: los boricuas are living in a clear better-off.on the other
    hand in respect to the sovereignity any comparison is out of question,Prican
    had the chance to decide about and they did,the cubans have not such a—
    possibility,firstly we have to dance with the nasty and boring soviet music,
    and know the government try to go in between China and Chavez.My goodness me ,publisher your question is not debatable at all,the answer is clear even for the blind people.


  5. Follow up post #5 added on August 22, 2006 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    Thanks for the replies. I’m sure Puerto Ricans are better off for enjoying all the freedoms that US control offers.

    I guess what I am trying to get at is the average living conditions across the majority of the population of both countries.

    Compare healthcare, education, crime, life expectancy, living conditions etc.

    I have not been to Puerto Rico but have heard that it is not a very nice place to live.



    Cuba consulting services

  6. Follow up post #6 added on August 22, 2006 by La Ventanita

    Publisher, I don’t know what you’ve heard, but Puerto Rico is not “not a very nice place to live”.  Like everywhere else there is crime, and poverty.  Cost of living may be a bit high in comparison to income, but most people manage.  Puerto Ricans were not voted the most festive country because they are sad - they are a happy festive bunch that can turn ANYTHING into a party.  They pretty much enjoy life, no matter what life throws at them.  And the island is simply beautiful.  I no longer reside there, but only because I chose to leave, as my challenges were not being met.

    I know there is healthcare for the poor (la tarjetita), there is public education - which like everywhere else people can drop out at a specific age. 

    Back to sovereignty and some of the comments above, if Puerto Ricans really wanted autonomy their votes on the many referendums the island has had would reflect so.  But EVERY SINGLE TIME the commonwealth status WINS, with statehood a close second, and Independence a very far an distant third.  The majority of Puerto Ricans want to remain as is, for now.


  7. Follow up post #7 added on August 22, 2006 by J. Perez

    Perhaps Puerto Ricans were smarter than Cubans in their choices with respect to the U.S., just consider 47 years of hostility, assasination attempts, invasion, economic blockade, this is the price Cubans have paid for sovereignty, was it worth it? Certainly not in material things, but who’s to say in terms of pride?


  8. Follow up post #8 added on August 23, 2006 by MiamiCuban

    Could it be that Puerto Ricans simply have a bad taste in their mouth for wanting independence?  I wonder what the people of Vieques would say about their “living in freedom.”  Let’s face it, anyone who seriously took on the challenge of fighting for Puerto Rico’s independence soon paid a heavy price.  No wonder they’ve lost their thirst for independence.  It’s safer to leave things as they are.  “Freedom” is relative.  They might have more “freedom” to criticize their government openly, and as long as they don’t stir things, they’re free to talk all they want.  But if you dare to challenge the status quo and become popular and actually draw a following, watch out because things may change drastically. 

    The fact is that both healthcare and education in Cuba are well above the standards of Puerto Rico’s.  The illiteracy rate in Cuba is is virtually null, the infant mortality rate is lower, and the average life span is higher.  Also, Cuba doesn’t have the crime and drug problems that Puerto Rico has, and is one of the few places in the world where children can run and play safely in the streets without the fear of abduction.  It seems to me that above anything else, the right to live and the right to health are the singular most important and basic rights of a human being, with the right to an education being next, and on all these counts Cuba excels over Puerto Rico.


  9. Follow up post #9 added on August 23, 2006 by La Ventanita

    MiamiCuban, maybe then you should leave Miami and go back to Cuba.  There must be a reason why you no longer live in Cuba if it was a much better place to live than Puerto Rico.

    I totally disagree with you in the sense that not all Cubans have access to the same quality of healthcare, the education is an indoctrination and contingent active participation in the Communist party (both of the child and the parents) and deficitient (since some books have been altered - a recent emigre learned in school that the US had started WWII to take over Europe - what kind of quality education is that?), drugs maynot be on the streets but the government certainly is not clean (remember Ochoa? he was a scapegoat), and crime well I’ll give you that Cuba more than likely has a lower crime rate then PR.  But when you have a controlling government you really don’t know the statistics.

    In closing, I disagree on your last statement.  To me, above anything else, ther right to live and be free are the singular most important and basic rights.  What good is good health if I’m being repressed? If I can’t express my views?  If I can’t contribute?  What good is the education if I can’t put it to use?


  10. Follow up post #10 added on August 23, 2006 by El Loco

    MiamiCuban, you wrote that

    “[t]he fact is that both healthcare and education in Cuba are well above the standards of Puerto Rico’s.  The illiteracy rate in Cuba is is virtually null, the infant mortality rate is lower, and the average life span is higher.  Also, Cuba doesn’t have the crime and drug problems that Puerto Rico has, and is one of the few places in the world where children can run and play safely in the streets without the fear of abduction.”

    When it comes to crime, you’re comparing apples and oranges here.  Of course you’re not going to have as much crime in a totalitarian country when you compare it against a democracy, no matter how well-behaved everyone is.  And let’s compare the actual data from Cuba and Puerto Rico, OK?

    Literacy Rate: Cuba - 97%; Puerto Rico - 94%.
    Infant Mortality: Cuba - 6.22 per 1,000; Puerto Rico - 9.14 per 1,000.
    Average Life Span: Cuba - 77.41 yrs.; Puerto Rico - 78.4 yrs.
    Death Rate: Cuba - 7.22 per 1,000; Puerto Rico - 7.65 per 1,000.

    Source: Cuba - http://www.indexmundi.com/cuba/demographics_profile.html

    Puerto Rico - http://www.indexmundi.com/puerto_rico/demographics_profile.html


    So in essence, even though Cuba has a much more comprehensive health services system, the key indicators are comparable.  But people in Puerto Rico have a choice as to what they do, where they do it, with whom, or whether to move to the Continental 48 or anywhere else in the world.  They are free to speak their minds, to participate in political and civic processes, or to refrain from participating.

    You cannot look at these indicators independent from their political and geopolitical context.  Few puertoricans would willingly switch places with their cuban counterparts.

    Puertoricans are far better off than cubans.


  11. Follow up post #11 added on August 23, 2006 by Ralph

    ‘TO me,above anything else,the right to live and be free are the singular
    most important and basis rights” Beautiful and to me a sacrosanct quotation
    of you comment.Ventanita once again Congrats,b/c you hit the nail on the head,what you was saying but nothing but the Truth.


  12. Follow up post #12 added on August 23, 2006 by MiamiCuban

    Thank you for the stats, “El Loco”.  I’m sure there are many other surveys, but assuming the one you provide is the most accurate of all, I have to say that I’m still impressed with Cuba’s accomplishments.  They show at best that Puerto Rico and Cuba are on par more or less.  However, what Puerto Rico has accomplished has been with the AID of the U.S., while Cuba’s accomplishments are in spite of almost 50 years of imposed sanctions and hardship on the part of the most powerful country.  You have to admit that’s quite a record.  Imagine how much more they could do without an embargo.  Even the repression that the Miami exile community likes to point to would also go away.


  13. Follow up post #13 added on August 23, 2006 by Ralph

    So,what I’ve seen from the indexmundi data substantiate my off-hand view,but again,the freedom datum which is not be offered by indexmundi,
    is beyond question to everybody: Pricans enjoy much more of this precious
    thing which we call Freedom,than my fellows cubans.-
    About criminality,even though is a negative index,everybody knows that open societies have more criminality than closed society, as a Cuban society is.Here in Amterdam,in Rotterdam,in the main cities of Holland criminalitait is
    high,b/c we are humans and not all of the humans are well-behaved,but of course ,the punishments through low and courts are also in place.


  14. Follow up post #14 added on August 23, 2006 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    Thank you everyone for the comments and stats. Well done.

    Interesting comparisons.

    So, history will absolve Fidel?



    Cuba consulting services

  15. Follow up post #15 added on August 23, 2006 by El Loco

    MiamiCuban, it’s a little disingenuous to suggest that Cuba accomplished what it has on its own.  They did get a lot of help from the USSR over the years, didn’t they?  That’s not to minimize their accomplishments, but to put them in context.

    Also, Puerto Rico IS part of the U.S. and puertoricans ARE U.S. citizens, which puts the aid P.R. gets on a different light.  Besides, that’s a trade-off for not being able to go out in the world and negotiate our own treatises with other governments, as some P.R. governors tried to do in the past.  Again, apples and oranges.

    I happen to agree with you that the embargo has not accomplished what it inteded to do and that it makes more sense to lift it, but that’s for another posts altogether.


  16. Follow up post #16 added on August 23, 2006 by La Ventanita

    Publisher, history will NOT absolve Fidel.  It will only bring to light all of his crimes, but that is for another post.

    MiamiCuban, free trade has not taken care of the repression in China, where political dissent is still a crime, it still is prosecuted and you can still be jailed.  Where you do not have access to certain pages on the internet, in order to control what you know and what you don’t know.  And that repression goes on, in spite of a booming economy.

    So no, lifting the embargo would not take care of the of the repression.  Funny that you mention the Miami exile community as an out group.  If you are Cuban and you live in Miami, my friend you are part of the Miami exile community.

    As for Cuban accomplishments, as El Loco pointed out, they not only had the USSR but also the booming tourism industry that Fidel so much criticized Batista for.  Cubans are not poor b/c of the embargo.  Cubans are poor b/c that’s how Fidel wants it to be.  But then again, another post.

    Still thinking - right to live and the right to be free.  You cannot put a price on that.


  17. Follow up post #17 added on August 23, 2006 by LoriG

    This is for MiamiCuban, and anybody else who believes anything published by the Cuban government.
    Theft is the way of life in Cuba.  You can’t feed your family based on the ration books, so while you’re at work in the bean packing plant you steal a couple of bags, one for your house and one to sell.  You work at the rice plant, you do the same as the bean plant worker.  You want to eat meat, so you drive a stray cow off a cliff and tell the authorities it fell, so you can split up the meat with anyone else who “witnessed” the fall.  You secretly sell part of the portion that went to you and hope you’re not busted and jailed for 20 yrs, for illegal sales.
    You have a computer at home, you steal internet service, because the government doesn’t allow internet.  Life in Cuba is about ” el bisne ”  When you speak of theft you must include it all.  To eat/live in Cuba as a Cuban you are usually involved in some level of theft.

    That being said, I am with the person who asked you what you’re doing living in the US, when life is so grand in Cuba.

    As to the question asked by publisher, what do you prefer?  Would you rather have the option to live as the Puerto Ricans do where at any time they could choose by VOTING, how they want to proceed with their country, or would you rather live being told what to think and how to think it, what to read and not to read?  A country where if you’re a foreigner you get great medical care that YOU pay for, but if you’re a born national you get asked by your doctor if you have a way of getting a hold of medical equipment and bed sheets to perform the surgery you need, because there are none left for the Cubans, and none of this you have the right to vote for or against.


  18. Follow up post #18 added on August 23, 2006 by LittleGator

    I guess it could be argued that it is only a matter of personal taste and preference. In this world there are men/women who would not mind living in a cage, as long as they got an “education” and “free” health care from a government that controls every aspect of their existence from cradle to grave. Others would prefer to take a risk on freedom, to succeed or fail.

    Lets see, Puerto Ricans have the freedom to think, to speak their thoughts, to work where and when they wish, to travel, to pray and to worship, to dissent,  to publicly disagree with their government. They have the right to vote whether or not to continue their association with the United States. They can leave their country without the government’s permission. Traveling abroad is not a crime. Speaking openly to foreigners is not a crime. Screaming “down with Bush” at the top of your lungs is not a crime. Of course, it is well known that you can do the same thing in La Habana without repercussion.  Any Cuban can stand right at the center of La Plaza de la Revolucion and yell “down with Bush.” No problem.

    It is a funny question you pose.  Hard to believe that in this day and age anyone would imagine that this is even debatable.


  19. Follow up post #19 added on August 23, 2006 by Noah Singman

    Can anyone seriously ask such a question? Even were most Cubans not desperately poor (and they are), and not horribly repressed (and they are), and not imprisoned for utterances against the Bearded Monster (and they are), Puerto Ricans are not fearful of summary execution for the “crime” of attempting to leave their island.


  20. Follow up post #20 added on August 23, 2006 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    LittleGator,

    As seen in this post, the question is debatable. I’m trying to get a sense from the perspective of Cubans living in Cuba and Puerto Ricans living in Puerto Rico. I wonder how many Cubans would want to live in Puerto Rico.

    To be fair, we cannot look down from the US and judge either country with regards to this question.

    Now maybe the Cubans are brainwashed by Castro and/or are very proud of their Cuban history but I think that many Cubans actually prefer Cuba to Puerto Rico.



    Cuba consulting services

  21. Follow up post #21 added on August 23, 2006 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    Noah,

    You are right but Puerto Ricans have no say in US politics and are not an independant country either.

    Would Puerto Rico be better off today if the US let it be an independant country after the Spanish American war like it let Cuba be independant?



    Cuba consulting services

  22. Follow up post #22 added on August 23, 2006 by LittleGator

    Publisher,

    Rather than say “I think that many Cubans actually prefer Cuba to Puerto Rico” perhaps we should consult statistics and facts.  Since the early 1960’s there has been a sizable (and growing) Cuban exile community in Puerto Rico.  Mike Lowell, a great third baseman, is a Puerto Rican-born child of such exiled Cubans—just as one example.  There is no similar Puerto Rican community in Cuba. We regularly see stories in the media about Cuban’s fleeing Cuba seeking to be smuggled into Puerto Rico. I do not recall ever seeing any stories about Puerto Ricans risking stormy seas to go live in Cuba. It seems the objective data clearly contradicts what you think. Are you aware of any data that supports your speculation?


  23. Follow up post #23 added on August 23, 2006 by El Loco

    Publisher, for clarification, Puertoricans who live in Puerto Rico have no say in U.S. politics.  And that’s somewhat misleading too because there are local chapters of the Republican and Democratic parties in P.R. who do elect delegates to those conventions.  So there is “some” level of political participation in U.S. politics.

    Also, you could argue - and being a Puertorican, I find this shameful, but true - that Puertoricans have no say in U.S. politics and are not an independent country by choice.

    As to whether P.R. would be better of had it become an independent country shortly after 1898, who knows?  And how could you know?  That’s like asking what your life would be like today had you gone to college and majored in X instead of Y.


  24. Follow up post #24 added on August 23, 2006 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    El Loco,

    I didn’t know about the involement in the conventions but that’s nothing really, right?

    I don’t think I said that Puerto Rico was not independant by choice. Maybe if Puerto Rico was released from the US after the Span Am war, they would have a Fidel Castro too???



    Cuba consulting services

  25. Follow up post #25 added on August 23, 2006 by MiamiCuban

    Little Gator:  People may not flee from Puerto Rico, but they do flee from Mexico and Haiti and other places, risking their lives for better economic conditons.  They flee from Cuba mostly for the same reason, but once they step on dry land they know better than to say they left for economic reasons.  They say it’s “political” or they get shipped right back.  I’ve met many people from the Bahamas, Haiti and the Dominican Republic who prefer Cuba to their own countries.  Of course in Miami you won’t find anyone saying this too loud.  Remember the congressional candidate who ran against Lincoln Diaz-Balart years ago?  When she returned from a visit to Cuba, they stoned her at the airport and police had to escort her out. 


    To “La Ventanita”:  I was born in the U.S. so I don’t think I’ll be moving anywhere else anytime soon.  I’m curious as to why you have to resort to personal attacks just because someone opines differently from you.  This is a forum for discussions and opinions; don’t take it personal.

    To “Publisher”:  In answer to your question about whether or not history will absolve Castro, I think that based on the reaction in Cuba to his illness, history is already absolving him.


  26. Follow up post #26 added on August 23, 2006 by La Ventanita

    MiamiCuba, it wasn’t a personal attack.  It was an opinion.  If you think Cuba is so great why not move?  It’s a very reasonable non offensive question.  I ‘m curious as to why you take it as a personal attack.  I’m not taking anything personal, but apparently you are.

    As for the representative you speak of, wasn’t she the one that during her visit to Cuba kissed and hugged Fidel, and called him “Maestro” as in Teacher?  Being from Florida she should’ve known better than to rub her constituents the wrong way.

    And your statement about Miami Cubans is not entirely true.  I’ve met many Cubans that left and do not support Fidel or his government.  I’m not saying all the Cubans that leave are anti-Fidel, but many of them are.

    As for the people fleeing, how many of them are actually fleeing to Cuba?


  27. Follow up post #27 added on August 23, 2006 by Noah Singman

    Publisher,

    Personally, I believe that Puerto Rico and its people would have been better off as an independent nation (I’m strongly anti-war, anti-imperialist and pro-laissez-faire capitalist, positions which inform my opinion about this). However, I believe they are still far better off now than Cubans. The fact that they could be even better off than they are (and I do hope that Puerto Rico gets its independence soon) doesn’t argue for Cubans being better off. The fact that Cubans try to leave despite the grave dangers, for whatever reason they choose to go (detestation of Castro, or desire for an exit from poverty), speaks volumes about their condition and how well off they see themselves.


  28. Follow up post #28 added on August 23, 2006 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    Okay. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. This was a good exercise in thought comparing the two islands since 1959.

    If no one has anything else directly related to this, let’s let it rest.

    Also, if some has a question they would like to post or disucssion they would like to start, members can find the Write Here area on this page in the column on the right.

    I review all posts before going live. I do not edit any comments unless highly offensive.



    Cuba consulting services

  29. Follow up post #29 added on August 23, 2006 by Salvador

    I’m tired of reading about the fantastic health care, literacy rates and infant mortality rate in Cuba. Those figures come from the Cuban Government, they are not independently gathered or verified, they are FALSE like almost all their propaganda.
    What about suicide and abortion statistics? The highest in America if not the world.
    To the “Miami Cuban” please tell me where you can find stones in Miami Airport?
    Lies and more lies, you keeep repeating them and they will stick.

    The real story about the Cuban people will be known in the not too distant future, REMEBER CAESESCU!


  30. Follow up post #30 added on August 23, 2006 by LittleGator

    MiamiCuban

    Before Castro’s tenure as dictator-for-life more people emigrated TO Cuba from all parts of the world, than left Cuba to reside abroad.  Historically, Haitians have always migrated (many to Cuba), Mexicans have always migrated.  Cubans, prior to 1959, did not.  That is no longer the case.  Now, there are over 2 million Cubans who have fled/been forced to leave the country, many for political reasons, others for economic reasons.

    Whether a particular Cuban’s subjective motivation for escaping is political or economic, the root cause is still the same—a failed political experiment, the misery of daily life in a repressive society.  It is really not possible to separate the two as you attempt to do.

    Also, once Cubans “step on dry land” they are not shipped back if they claim they came for economic reasons. Please read the Cuban Adjustment Act.

    Finally, despite it all, Cuba is a beautiful country. I do not doubt that there are many foreigners who would love to live in Cuba, as foreigners. But, I have never met anyone who aspired to live in Cuba as a “regular” run-of-the-mill Cuban with the lack of freedom, restrictions, ration card, committees for the defense of the revolution (neighborhood snitches), actos de repudio, mindless obediance to an illogical system, political prisons, etc.


  31. Follow up post #31 added on August 23, 2006 by MiamiCuban

    First, I wouldn’t move to Cuba for the same reason I wouldn’t move to Spain or France or Canada; this is my home.

    Second, if we live in a free country, then opinions are respected.  If the representatives constituents didn’t like what she did, then they need to vote for someone else.  That’s the democratic way.  We won’t set an example by trying to stone people to death or by banning children’s books which have no political content whatsoever.  I guess my point is that we shouldn’t criticize Cuba if we do the same things back here at home.  Let’s BE the example that we would want Cuba and others to follow.

    As for your last question, I have no idea how many have “fled” to Cuba.  I do know that some have, and as economic conditions worsen in Miami or elsewhere, it’s logical to assume the numbers will grow.


  32. Follow up post #32 added on August 23, 2006 by Pepin Gatieza

    I wonder how many Puerto Ricans have taken to the sea to reach Cuba during this year ?


  33. Follow up post #33 added on August 23, 2006 by Juan Garcia

    While living in Cuba until recently, I still remember days when I dreamed of leaving the island forever..My wife and I even considered Haiti!!
    If Cuba and puerto Rico son “de un pajaro las dos alas”, el ave es manca!!!


  34. Follow up post #34 added on August 23, 2006 by Fury

    “I do know that some have, and as economic conditions worsen in Miami or elsewhere, it’s logical to assume the numbers will grow.”

    It’s logical to assume that you’re out of your mind.  You’ve got to be kidding me.  If economic conditions worsen in Miami, people will move to other locations in the US.  They WILL NOT move to a country ruled by a dictator.  How in the world can you come to the conclusion that people will leave a free country to go to a more repressive one?  Have you actually ever talked to anyone from Cuba?


  35. Follow up post #35 added on August 23, 2006 by Henry Agüeros

    Being born in Puerto Rico of a very poor Cuban family and having had the opportunity to see Cuba .......ALL I can say is——-Thank You Jesus, that my parents were able to leave castros Cuba when they did.
    I see hundreds of thosands of Cubans “dieing” to leave castros Cuba….....
    I dont see any Puerto Ricans trying to get into Cuba.
    Miamicuban…...if its so good in Cuba——-what you doing in the good old USA?
    Oh….........I forgot. Its great to be a Socialist when you live in a capitalist country.
    Que mandinga la tuya.


  36. Follow up post #36 added on August 23, 2006 by Eleggua

    This is crazy, I wonder how anyone could ask such a question?

    Some people in Puerto Rico think independence works better for them. That’s fine. But to quote Cuba as an example for an independent Caribbean nation is absurd. Cuba has not been independent since 1959. Until 1991 it certainly depended more on the Soviet Union than Puerto Rico depends on the USA, but without the free speech, free press, free enterprise and the pursuit of happiness. And now Cuba depends on the “chavitos”, Venezuela and China.

    Puerto Ricans could protest the US military presence on Vieques without any personal risk. A Cuban protesting against anything in Havana would have about 5 minutes before the Seguridad plucked him off the street.

    The truth is that Cuba today is an apartheid state, strictly divided between those who have divisas and those who have not. If you have 500 pesos convertibles a month, you can live rather well (as a Cuban) in Cuba, but this money buys you a better house, better food, better health care: it does not buy you any freedom. Even if you make 2000 or 3000 a month this doesn’t change. If you are unlucky the state will confiscate what you have because you are “enriching yourself”, even if it was hard work that made you earn your money. Back to square 1 you go.

    Imagine those who must live on a Cuban salary and the libreta only. They would be stuck with this wonderful “free health care”, which unfortunately doesn’t include linen, soap or aspirine in a hospital, let alone expensive medecine against cancer or severe burns because your gas stove exploded. This medecine is for people with divisas only.

    I invite any Puerto Rican to try to live like this in Cuba for just a month.

    You would never ask such a silly question again.


  37. Follow up post #37 added on August 23, 2006 by Eleggua

    But if you don’t believe me, compare the suicide rates of Cuba and Puerto Rico.

    I’m not even mentioning the thousands of Cubans who die at sea. I think that isn’t factored in when you quote life expectancy?


  38. Follow up post #38 added on August 23, 2006 by baldwin

    “Would Puerto Ricans rather live in Cuba or would Cubans rather live in Puerto Rico.” (sic)

    Hell, Cubans don’t even want to live in Cuba.  That is why they risk life and limb to come to the USA.  I have never heard of a Puerto Rican fleeing Puerto Rico for Cuba.

    How many Cubans have voted on your question?  For that matter how many Cubans have the ability to access your internet sight?

    What is more impressive the mortality rate of Cuba or the abortion rate?

    Cuba pre 1959 had a higher standard of living, better infant mortality, and superior healthcare than many countries in Europe and all of Latin America.  Even with the out-break of left leaning governments in South America the march north to the United States continues.  Only governments with aspirations of lifetime rule come knocking on fidel’s door.

    How unfortunate that the U.S.S.R. collapsed.  Billions and billions of dollars flowing from that old rusty Soviet spigot-turned off. 

    Oh, that old blockade.  Poor fidel can’t make ends meet with out the Yankee imperialists. 

    No matter, fidel can still trade with Japan, Europe, and the rest of the world.
    Oh thats right he has nothing left to trade (all the “doctors” have been traded to Venezuela for oil). 

    Not to mention that fidel has stiffed most of his “trading partners” anyway.

    Hey fidel I know your english is not too good.  It is AID not TRADE that you want.

    Most Puerto Ricans like Americans of every walk of life contribute to their country by working, obeying the law and striving to make a better life for their children.  They are home owners, college graduates, doctors, lawyers and free people.  Free to pass their wealth, their posessions, and their culture to their children.

    Cubans can only hope and pray that they have such an opportunity. 

    Here’s a question for you MiamiCuban.  Where would you rather have your children live Puerto Rico or Cuba?


  39. Follow up post #39 added on August 23, 2006 by Larry Daley

    One has to remember that Cuba is a dictatorship, and thus the health care in Cuba is what Castro says it is.  International statistics for Cuba are what the Cuban government says they are.  They are not challenged or tested just accepted verbatim.  Observers have seen empty shelves in pharmacies, dirty very poorly equipped medical facilities for most (but not all the population).


  40. Follow up post #40 added on August 24, 2006 by gm

    The Swedish World Values Surveys (WVS) has compiled data on the happiest countries in the world for over twenty years. Their results are considered the most authoritative by happiness researchers.

    In the survey, individuals were asked, “All things considered, how satisfied are you with your life as a whole these days?” Based on their answers a ranking of “subjective well-being” for the following countries was achieved.

    Of 79 countries surveyed, Puerto Ricans identified themselves as the most-satisfied (“happiest”) people in the world. By way of comparison, Denmark ranked #3; Switzerland 8th; Canada 10th; and the U.S. 15th. In last place was Zimbabwe. It was impossible to include either North Korea or Cuba in the survey because their respective governments would not allow it.


  41. Follow up post #41 added on August 24, 2006 by h a s s a n

    Who is better off since 1959: Cubans or Borinquas?

    Hmmm…. Let’s see:

    Rich slave or poor freedman?

    Our brothers and sisters in Borinquen are languishing as Yanqui colonial subjects.  Cubans in Cuba have it “better” than Boriquas in Puerto Rico. But don’t worry folks: Borinquen will be free soon, too.

    Viva Dr. Albizu Campos!!

    “What is good for the hunter is not good for the hunted.” - Antonio Camacho Negrón


  42. Follow up post #42 added on August 24, 2006 by h a s s a n

    “Cuba, triunfadora en su empeño emancipador, no puede, por muchas razones, olvidar a la Isla hermana. Invadiremos a Puerto Rico y obtendremos su independencia.” - General Antonio Maceo


  43. Follow up post #43 added on August 24, 2006 by h a s s a n

    “Bottom line: there is a growing number of people in Puerto Rico that are pissed off about yet another manifestation of what happens to people living in one of the world’s last colonies. That’s right ladies and gentlemen – no matter how your conscious as an American citizen proud of this country’s anticolonial struggles wants to view it, Puerto Rico is a colony of the United States of America and has been since General Nelson Miles and his U.S. troops invaded Puerto Rico at the end of July, 1898 when the outcome of the Spanish-American War was already a victorious foregone conclusion for the United States.

    “Puerto Rico’s efforts to secure its freedom and sovereignty date back, in the modern era, to the 19th century when Paris-educated doctor Ramón Emeterio Betances first clamored for the independence of Borinquen, the name Puerto Rico’s indigenous Taino people called the island and, hence, the name that Puerto Rican patriots had chosen for their country when Spain finally gave autonomy to the island in 1897 after almost thirty years of having Puerto Rican representatives serve as participatory members of Madrid’s legislative assembly, the Cortes.

    “At the time of the U.S. invasion, Borinquen was already issuing its own currency, postage stamps as part of its own postal service, was managing its own customs houses as per international travel and commerce, and had its own constitution. This was the basis upon which the legendary Dr. Pedro Albizu Campos, an Ivy League-trained intellectual giant, formed his argument against what he viewed quite clearly as the illegitimacy of U.S. rule over what was already a sovereign nation per international laws and precedents.

    “It is obvious that a gross injustice is taking place in Puerto Rico. The difficulty, however, is in determining which is the great injustice: that Puerto Rico is a colony with no apparent future of peaceful transition to dignified sovereignty or that no one in the United States seems to care.”


  44. Follow up post #44 added on August 24, 2006 by La Ventanita

    Hassan get a clue; Spain never gave independence to Puerto Rico. 

    Remember I LIVED in Puerto Rico and we did learn Puerto Rican History in School, including all the independence movements led by Betances and Albizu.

    And I do believe the quote from Maceo you are using refers to the Spanish occupation of both Puerto Rico and Cuba; not the Cubans liberating Puerto Rico of the U.S.
    Rich slave? ha, please don’t make me laugh.  No one in PR is a slave of anyone, nor are they all rich.  They are however all FREE.  And it is that very FREEDOM that has allowed them to CHOOSE more than 3 times that they wish to remain a commonwealth.

    MiamiCuba, the only Puerto Ricans that have gone to live in Cuba are either Communists or Criminals.


  45. Follow up post #45 added on August 24, 2006 by h a s s a n

    Venta

    You “lived” in Puerto Rico as a member of the carpet-bagging privileged class not too different from Scots living in India during the Raj.  Puerto Rican schools?  LOL!  That is nothing more than an instrument of indoctrination and subjugation used to maintain colonial authority on the Isla Encanta.  What else can be said of an “educational” system that does not offer any courses/instruction in the native/dominant tongue beyond primary school?

    As for Boriquas “choosing,” as evidence of fictious freedom, “to remain a commonwealth” that is not accurate because what actually “carried” was the electoral equivalent of “no change.”  Saying “idunno” is not the same as “we want to stay under your heel, Tio Sam.”

    .
    . .

    “After forming the ‘Free Associated State’ in 1952, then Governor Luis Muñoz Marín vowed to eliminate every last independentista by 1960. This great ‘purge’ strengthened his Popular Democratic Party for years, but ultimately grew into a fear of anything not stamped ‘U.S.’, which gave its pro-statehood rival New Progressive Party the crossover voters it needed to emerge as the new front-runner. What we have left is what PIP President Rubén Berríos Martínez once described as the ‘Goya (Foods) complex (in a take-off of its advertising slogan)’: ‘If it’s American, it HAS to be good!’”


    . .
    . .


    “...at the annual Luis Muñoz Rivera PDP conclave at Barranquitas, former advertising executive Angel Collado Schwarz, and now director of the Fundación La Voz del Centro, described statehood as a lost cause. “Statehood is not an option for Puerto Rico;’ he said, “because the United States doesn’t want it”. And the current relationship “is colonial and the U.S. government treats us as a territory ... We don’t have the time to continue a status that is frankly deteriorating, affecting our economic and social fiber and does not have the enthusiastic backing of the metropolis.’”

    As for Maceo’s comments, it was referring to ANY country’s occupation.  The US had not yet entered the picture directly but i doubt that a hero as great as Maceo would be brave in the face of one foe and a coward running from another.  That description is more the Diaz-Balarts and the rest of the Miami gang.


  46. Follow up post #46 added on August 25, 2006 by La Ventanita

    hassan “What else can be said of an “educational” system that does not offer any courses/instruction in the native/dominant tongue beyond primary school?”

    Bro, are you talking about Spanish?  Then you really need to get a clue.  All my classes ALL OF THEM were in Spanish except for of course English.  And we had a SPANISH LANGUAGE class all 12 years - yes in High School too (and for the record ALL schools do).  And if 12 years weren’t enough, when you get into college Oh my God, one more year of Spanish!  So that’s WAY beyond primary school.

    And they are not indoctrination schools - again get a clue.  A big majority of the teachers at these schools - private AND public - are “independentistas” or “melones”.

    “You “lived” in Puerto Rico as a member of the carpet-bagging privileged class not too different from Scots living in India during the Raj” 

    Lived as part of the privileged class?  Are you joking me?  What the heck do you know about me or my life?  How dare you assume who I am?  Why because I disagree with you?  Man, you have never even seen political activism in Puerto Rico.  Bet you’ve never seen how many of the poor support both the PPD and the PNP parties.  The majority of the island wants to stay as is. You think they want to lose their cupones?  the public housing? 

    It is a very VERY vocal minority that wants independence.  Get a new source or simply start saying that you are not that informed but that’s your point of view.

    As for your Maceo comment, we will never know.  Maceo, like Marti, were fighting with the Mambises against Spanish rule.  I didn’t see any of them coming over to PR to “liberate” us from the Americans once Cuba was granted independence.  Wouldn’t that be meddling?


  47. Follow up post #47 added on August 25, 2006 by La Ventanita

    Oh and as far as the referendum, in which I voted on most of them (did you?), the last ones did say ELA, Idependencia o Estadidad (as did the advertisements on the media).  You cannot get any clearer than that - people knew exactly what they were voting for.  And even the autonomous movement inside the PPD wants a permanent association with the US.


  48. Follow up post #48 added on August 25, 2006 by MiamiCuban

    Ventanita:  You say that the the only Puerto Ricans that have gone to live in Cuba are either Communists or Criminals.  That’s serious generalization to say the least.  Could it be they just don’t care for material things and prefer to live in a crime-free country where life is simple?  Maybe they like the culture, the music, the Cuban people?  Criticizing someone for choosing a way of life that’s different from what you consider “free” only demonstrates a level of ignorance and lack of understanding for alternating viewpoints.  It’s precisely this mentality that has kept the exile community stuck where they are.  They stubbornly cling to a past that will never be again, and have missed out on countless opportunities to make things better for themselves and for those in Cuba.  What a waste.

    Hassan:  I’ve enjoyed reading your comments.  They were informative and I learned a few things I didn’t know.


  49. Follow up post #49 added on August 25, 2006 by viajero

    ok guys, i’ve read your comments carefully, and I just want to give my 2 cents to the publisher’s question.
    I’ve lived 25 years in Cuba, and living abroad for the last 8 years. I’m not going to compare Cuba with Puerto Rico, cause I don’t know Puerto rico, i do know how things are in Cuba, since i go back every 6 months and still have very good friends from my childhood living there.
    To those who say that Cubans flee the country due to political reasons, that might be true, but I believe that would be a very small percentage compared to those who do leave the country for economic reasons just like Mexicans crossing the US border, or argentinians leaving for Europe and the States during the economic crisis. Emigration has always existed, but the thing is that when it comes to Cuba, it all becomes about freedom of speech, “free” elections and all freebies. As one in the forum says, let’s see if one in States or in the PR stands out, and start gaining some political power, what would happen next? guys, being a capitalist system, or a socialist one, is all about repression, no matter what.


    someone asks the question whether you’d like to have my children live in Cuba; hell yes!
    why? I believe in spite of the changes the country has experienced (chavitos and everything else) it is still a safe place where i don’t have to look after my kids playing pelota on the streets.
    Why i don’t go back to live to Cuba? that’s my dream one day. If those who believe that Cuba is dependent on Venezuela and China, what would be of the States without the oil from Saudi Araubia? then again, that would be another topic wink
    respectfully yours
    el viajero


  50. Follow up post #50 added on August 25, 2006 by La Ventanita

    MiamiCuban, the Puerto Ricans known to live in Cuba (the famous, or perhaps the infamous kind), are sypathizers of Castro, hence communists, or Puerto Rican terrorists that went to Cuba to avoid capture by the FBI.  That’s not criticizing someone, that’s just statistics.

    Now if you know of other Puerto Ricans, not sympathizers of Castro, and not criminals living in Cuba b/c of the reasons you state - and they are living AS CUBANS NOT as Foreigners then you can consider those among your group.

    Viajero, you lost me somewhere in your second paragraph when talking about free speech.  You say going back to Cuba is your dream one day - what holds you back right now political or economic reasons?


  51. Follow up post #51 added on August 26, 2006 by MiamiCuban

    Ventana:  Here are some quick facts: 
    1-“sympathizers of Castro” don’t necessarily have to be communists.  The fact is there are millions of castro-sympathizers all over the world with different ideologies - they just have more tolerance than people like you; 2-if a Puerto Rican “terrorist” as you put it were to flee to Cuba, he wouldn’t escape the law there either—-despite what you believe, Cuba does not harbor terrorists, which leads me to 3-according to Noam Chomsky (MIT professor and one of the world’d leading figures on politics) - Cuba holds the world record for receiving the most terrorist attacks; 4-Another fact - I know of people who have moved back to Cuba, not because they agree with the system, they don’t care about politics—-they just like the freedom of not having to work two jobs to survive and the fact that they don’t have to worry about crime; 5) just look at the reaction to Sergio Vargas’ “Che” t-shirt, and you can see the hypocrisy and the level of intolerance in MIAMI - so this is the group of people I’m supposed to be impressed with as torch bearers for freedom and democracy? 

    You mentioned somewhere that there are different groups of exiles in Miami.  You’re right, there are.  They’ve all left for a hundred different reasons.  But they can also be clumped into two groups: a) those who moved past the bitterness and resentment, and b) those who have not.


  52. Follow up post #52 added on August 27, 2006 by Ralph

    Publisher question: better-off the most Cuban or PRican people.
    quality of the question:for a few moot point.
    Time in the blog: More than 10 days.
      Final score: Cuban better-off:3
                  PtoRican better-off: 6
    So,i come to the conclusion that the vast majority of the comments
    have said the Ptorican better-off is undeniable.Publisher you have
    what you get.-
    Suggestion: Publisher poses another question b/c this one has been already answered.Thanks to everyone


  53. Follow up post #53 added on August 28, 2006 by viajero

    hi ventanita

    what’s holding me back to return to cuba is the economy. I’d like to start up a IT consulting in Cuba cause I believe Cuba have invested a lot in education, specially when it comes to Information technology. I’m not talking here about Internet access which is prohibited for the locals for the reason I understand but do not accept.
    however, current economic conditions do not allow me to do that kind of project in the near future.


  54. Follow up post #54 added on August 29, 2006 by Ralph

    What would be the kingdom of SA without selling its oil to Usa or another?Oil
    is not eatable one,Viajero,your comparaisons are very naive or worse than
    that,aren’t they?,je,je,love freedom and free and fair elections,etc to you
    are freebies,that is the last strow,and you understand the reason for restricting mercilessly the right of using internet for my fellows,but you say
    don’t accept,so you understand and don’t accept,in the end you deny what
    you understand,,La chiva o los 5 pesos,viajerito con ruta escondida.


  55. Follow up post #55 added on August 29, 2006 by viajero

    jajaja hey Ralph, what free and fair elections are you talking about? the ones where there’re only two parties and where money talks? free elections where parties respond to big corporations instead of the interests of the people??
    c’mon! what part of my comparaisons are naives??
    i don’t deny the fact that there’re Cuba government policies that I don’t agree with. but am not blind neither. living in europe and in north america have given me the chance to compare, and I regret that Cubans can’t do the same.
    nadie sabe lo que tiene hasta que lo pierde.
    I know many of them who would return if the economic conditions will allow it.
    as for your comment on who will be buying saudi oil, try china and india….


  56. Follow up post #56 added on August 30, 2006 by Ralph

    Democracy when it does,is the best we can have now and for many,many years to come,of course many of so-called democracies are dogged by coruptions,sneaky behaviours,etc,But when democracy works,the people’s lifes are better,when is needed they can outcry on the streets,pressure in
    the parliament and in the end changements for the better are coming,recently
    here in Europe,in France the streets send a clear message to the government
    and in the end some policies are in place to “alleviate"the bad situations of
    discrimination of second-generation immigrants,in America the Free-Press is
    a hammer over the head of the administration,why not in Cuba?Your mock
    over free elections is unfair,b/c there are many independent groups who
    are monitoring,the opposition is also very active,the foreigner groups,UN groups,etc should certify about,America has to play with the same rules and
    they have to welcome any general election monitoring group,but it is in this
    way in Cuba? isn’t it? houndreds of decent cubans are in jail,just to tell what
    is out of the government tale? the restriction over accessing to Internet,by
    the way,you have said that you know the reasons,tell me what “reasons” or
    whatever could impede people to have access to cutting-edge information or
    to exchange opinions with other humans,no matter where.those are ill-behaviours and in the end a Fiasco.I uphold the cuban government achievements in Health Care,notwithstanding indoctrination,I uphold as well the education system in Cuba and is a matter of “extra-political"proud to me
    the big achievemt of my fellows in Sport,in Olimpic games,in World Cup,in
    Panamericans games,in Caribbean and CAmerican games,in Baseball cups,etc
    My kudos still stand to them for those achievements,but that could never be
    a ground to cut civil liberties,to reduce the free expressions of the cuban’s mind.On the contrary I know many who are looking foward to comingback to
    Cuba when the political situation changes,they are highly educated and well
    behaved people,who have other nationality without putting their cuban nationality down,I as many of the cubans who I know in Europe,work and
    earn well their living,they make their ends meet and help their families in
    Cuba,But they arén’t here for foods or better jobs,b/c in Cuba the vast majority of them could manage so as to live well,without excess,but the staple
    food of their soul,viajerito eso hay que sentirlo,is FREEDOM,which means to
    be able to express their thoughts without being repressed.You know what
    I want to see my beloved Cuba under a Socialism Democratic rather than a
    greedy capitalism system.I don’t live in the states and my family,my very family live in NYork,so for us politics comes after,it is important,but not the
    most important thing in our life.In respect to your comment of oil,SArabia,etc,
    what I said is a simple,very simple business judgement which is in the variable
    seller-buyer the latter comes first,el que compra manda ,dijo el Mas Grande entre los cubanos con verguenza’y ese fue José Julian Martí Pérez Navarro y
    Cabreras.


  57. Follow up post #57 added on August 30, 2006 by MiamiCuban

    Viajero is right.  “Free and fair elections” is not what we have.  There are two major parties in the U.S., but really there is only one because the ones running the show are the corporations who fund the campaigns of the candidates and therefore compromise them into writing the laws that benefit them.  And what’s good for the corporations is not good for the people.  The way they have managed to keep the masses happy is by having them live under the illusion that they are voting the politicians in and out of the white house.  And most people prefer to go on about their busy lives believing this rather than to look deeper and see the stark truth.  Sure, there are other smaller parties, and as long as they don’t grow in strength, they’re left alone so they can maintain the “illusion”.  And of course the media is owned by the corporations.  Ralph, you keep pointing to the lack of freedom of speech in Cuba.  The comparison between the two countries is utterly unfair.  Let’s see how much freedom of speech we would have in the U.S. if capitalism ever came under fire and the world’s industrialized nations joined forces against us.  Think about that for a second.  Or just take the present.  What do you think would happen if someone were to publish articles showing sympathetic ties to Al Queda?  You know very well they would be arrested and probably sent to Guantanamo where he wouldn’t even have rights to a trial.  I’m not saying that Cuba is a bed of roses, but comparing its situation to that of the U.S. is completely absurd.  Before blaming Cuba, you have to look at it within its own historic context as well as it’s past relationship to the U.S., and then with clarity and much understanding, try to find peaceful ways to resolve the differences.  Have we done this at all?  Absolutely not.  Cuba has been hammmered for almost 50 years with sanctions, while exile groups have been permitted to antagonize and provoke in many different ways and still do so.  But Cubans are still chugging along, making the best of what they have and dealing with troublemakers as situations arise, while exiles continue to point the finger and accuse them of being repressive.  The whole thing is as senseless as picking at a wound constantly and then complaining that it’s not healing.


  58. Follow up post #58 added on August 31, 2006 by Ralph

    Miamicuban: It is far-fetched what you have said as a whole,however it
    is easy to accept that the cubans has been under duress since the very
    beginning of the process,but that cannot make any excuses for the poor
    record in civil liberties in the cuban society,they could and they can do more, notwithstanding the duress.The corruption in Cuba is rampant,many party
    officials are involving in,but the law just trials the political dissenters and
    send to jail,otherwise decent people,but leaving the bandits at large.


  59. Follow up post #59 added on September 01, 2006 by MiamiCuban

    Ralph, political dissenters are sent to jail whenever they break the law, as is the case everywhere else in the world.  Especially if they receive funds from foreign sources or are aided in any way to either overthrow the government or destabilize the system.  I’ve been to Cuba and have heard people talk openly about both the good and bad, and most of the time the complaints are about economic conditions.  So when a “political dissenter” is arrested, I can only assume that more was involved other than just plain talk, but of course this goes against the agenda of the right-wing exiles and so we never hear that side of the story.  As for the corruption, unfortunately this happens everywhere.  I agree with your concern over this, it needs to be cleaned up.


  60. Follow up post #60 added on September 02, 2006 by Mike Rivera Sr, Naples Fl

    To: Miami Cuban

    In Puerto Rico, people enjoy a standard of living that is among the highest in the Caribbean. Health care on the island has continued to improve since the 1940’s. the majority of Puerto Ricans have cars. While income for Puerto Ricans is much higher than in any other Caribbean island it is much lower than in the United States.

    Of all three islands Cubans seems to have the worst living conditions of them all. Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union in1991, Cuba has been going through what they call a “Special Period.” Under the special period, energy consumption is drastically reduced, oxen are put to work out in the fields, people get around in bikes and food is slashed to a minimum survival level. Once recognized as one of the best in the Third World, the health care system in Cuba today is so bad that patients must bring their own bed sheets to the hospital, and surgeons are given one bar of soap per month with which to wash their hands. Black markets buy and sell goods such as food, clothes, liquor, medicine, cigarettes, and gas.

    These are known facts and not propaganda hype form the bully regime.

    Another quick fact Puerto Ricans have U.S. statutory citizenship by writ of Congress and its not a guaranteed right. It could be repealed by congress at any time We are in limbo, but with superb benefits That No Caribbean island could ever achieve on its own

    As for the boriqua diasporas and where they can roam, where they would prefer to live? Most prefer to stay in PR .The beaches and the Mountains , and its traditions and Puerto Rican people.

    The recent immigration moves out of PR. (If you can call it that)
    Numerous medical doctors, ESQ’s, nursing positions,  IT and other higher end jobs / wages. In which the younger Puerto Ricans are moving to central Fl and S Fl and phoenix. For better paying jobs and the need is great in these markets. See the report for Puerto Rican Studies at Hunter College.

    Centro de Estudios Puertorriqueños (Hunter College, CUNY) google it

    Puerto Rico, Past , Present, and “Future” (Op-Ed News, September 1, 2006)
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_carlos_t_060831_puerto_rico_2c_past__2c_.htm

    Most Puerto Ricans living and working in the US Mainland have plans to move back at retirement there is NO need for for escape tactics and trick because if they wanted to they can fly into Cuba just as they fly into NY, FL, CA and Spain.
    All were initiated by Puerto Ricans “looking for a better life”

    The key word here my Hispanic brother is Choice.

    As for PR’s independences form the US. The US holds a tight grip on this island for the fear of Cuba trying annex PR somehow look at the most recent FBI killing
    Filiberto Ojeda Rios, the 72-year-old founder of Puerto Rico’s radical Boricua Popular Army, also known as the Macheteros

    Calls for the US and the FBI to leave PR are growing by leaps & bounds and many of the US puerto ricans, and PR itself do sympathizes with this idea The issue: The Macheteros are considered a terrorists group.
    So how do you win this one?

    Thanks for your time to read my thoughts

    Mike Rivera Sr.
    Single Puerto Rican Male age 38
    Naples Fl


  61. Follow up post #61 added on September 05, 2006 by Pete Chavez

    The choice to analitically/statistically compare (Cuba/P.R.) is flawed.
     
    Cuba should be compared to, Irealand , Iceland (in terms of Human Recources, natural resources and geographic compatibility.  It should also be compared to North Vietnam, Cambodia, North Korea and Taiwan for haveing similar political and economically stuctured histories and comparitive sizes in populations and resources.
    Puerto Rico should be compared to French Guyana (Dept. of France, US Virgin Islands (territory of U.S.), Brittich Virgin Island (territory of UK), Rock of Gilbralta (territory of the Uk),Ceuta, Morrocco (territory of Spain), Canary Islands (Spain) for haveing similar political ties to their “main lands” or “mother countries”.  They share the welcome/unwelcome distinction of cultural occupation and they share similar issues with soveriegnty and political status.  Then they should also be compared with Costa Rica, El Salvador, Trinidad & Tobago, Jamaica .  They are full subjects or citizens and are not common wealths or territories, colonies and freely associated states. 
    But these are sovereign nations within the same hemisphere with similar population size, culture and natural resources. 

    To compare Cuba to P.R. is to compare the US. to South Africa.  Some similarities (language, racial strife, appartheid/slavery) but a whole slew of differences That makes this apples and oranges.


  62. Follow up post #62 added on October 11, 2006 by PJ Estrada

    This is a great discussion and a topic that I am going to include in the documentary film I am producing.  I will be shooting in PR right after Thanksgiving (Dec 12-Jan 8th).  I would like to interview people either in Spanish and/or in English concerning their life in Puerto Rico, personally, economicly, socially and politically.  Please e-mail with your contact information if you are interested.


  63. Follow up post #63 added on October 11, 2006 by PJ Estrada

    HERE IS MY E-MAIL ADDRESS IN CASE YOU CAN NOT ACCESS IT THROUGH THE PRIOR MESSAGE.

    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

    MUCHAS GRACIAS


  64. Follow up post #64 added on December 16, 2006 by Jeannette Rodriguez

    Hi, I am intersested in you topic and in the interviews.

    Thanks


    Jeannette


  65. Follow up post #65 added on March 05, 2007 by regina

    cool just wat i need 4 my article


  66. Follow up post #66 added on April 18, 2007 by oochie

    man this is a stupid question puerto rico is way better i mean like i live in miami and i listen to the stupid old cuban pplz talk about fidel this and fidel that ....man stupid they talk about how they didnt have underwear and they used pillowcases for underwear and stuff man and they the haters all the haters oh nanananan puerto rico wouldnt be like that with out help of the u.s nananan blah blah blah stupid! how are you going to say such a stupid thing
    like that i mean your a idiot ok miami oh wow so you guys over populite it cuz your grandpas got kicked out of jail for being killers and grabage pplz man go take a look at n.y. its full of puerto ricans dont mean we built it cubans didnt build miami no.2 why do u think everthing is from cuba when your cuban jesus no man noting is from cuba cuban coffie is just exsperso and cuban bread is freaking a bigger version of a freach bread infact its the same one we use for hoogies cuban sandwitches just ham pickles and mustered with swiss chesse ...............swiss chesse!!! swiss swiss idk i guess swiserland is in cuba now man stupid cuban guy who said that p.r wouldnt be the same ur stupid becuz how could u tell or say that i mean are you god? could u prodict what p.r could have been i mean for all you know it could have had higher tec then japan and we could have one all the olympics for every year ever ...man ..will my point is here your stupid go back to cuba and stay there let lil daddy fidel take care of u guys and keep u guys in place cuz your stupid .


  67. Follow up post #67 added on April 18, 2007 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    Hmmm, so I take it you don’t like Cubans.

    Are you talking about ALL Cubans, old Cuban exiles, recent arrivals to the US or Cubans who live in Cuba?

    PS The latest version of Firefox browser has a built in spell checker.



    Cuba consulting services

  68. Follow up post #68 added on July 11, 2007 by Carlos Burrowes

    Miami, Florida, U.S.A. 7-11-2007
    I want Cuba Been Free Associate of U.S.A.
    When in Cuba elections exist really between real opponents a candidate Cuba Been Free Associate of U.S.A. will present himself and if it wins legal negotiations will be carried out before the authorities of U.S.A.
    In God we trust!
    Sympathizer Cuba Been Free Associate of U.S.A.
    Carlos Burrowes.
    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)


  69. Follow up post #69 added on July 11, 2007 by Carlos Burrowes

    Miami, Florida, U.S.A. 7-11-2007
    It is demonstrated that in Puerto Rico they do not see illegal Port Riquenos in U.S.
    Port Riquenos is not seen in Chola or in containers.
    In Puerto Rico coups d’état are not seen.
    The Port Riqueno is a citizen of U.S.A. what gives him enormous benefits not as the Cuban citizenship that does not give any representation.
    They pay to the Cuban in devaluated currency.
    It is sad like in Cuba those who are in charge are covered with the shield of the independence and sovereignty to do all kinds of misconducts.
    For me the system that has at present Puerto Rico is top because it gives freedom to the people whereas the system independent from Cuba does not give freedom to the People.
    The independentistas Port Riquenos are blind because they do not want to see as they die Cuban, Dominican and Haitian to come to U.S.A.
    In God we trust.
    Sympathizer Cuba Been Free Associate of U.S.A.
    Carlos Burrowes.
    .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)


  70. Follow up post #70 added on May 06, 2008 by chocoramo

    I’m in the middle of studying Socialism and the Cuban Revolution.

    What I know about Cuba is that they are fair when it comes to healthcare and education…although they live under Fidel Castro and his dictatorship, people will never be turned away when in need of medical attention, children will never be turned away when in need of an education or never be in doubt about having money to study, the homeless going through trash will hardly ever happen, nor will they have a rich capitalist companies knocking at their doors to take their jobs.

    The US was my home for 19 years and now I live in Bogota, Colombia…the differences are appalling. Although the economic system in the US is much better, I have more freedom here in Colombia…why? I was born in Colombia and raised in the US…I have fought hard to have my legal papers (never have I been illegal) and then when my money and patientence ran out I realized that I could be happier in any other country, like my own although life is harder.

    Cuba may have it’s disadvantages in relation to it’s freedom, but it had it’s advantages. Many Cubans do leave Cuba because they want something more, and once they realize what the world holds…of course they want to leave. I don’t like capitalism because I believe in equality not money. If we were to ask the Cubans who do live in Cuba and are happy…why are they happy? It’s probaby because they don’t need a lot of material things to live.

    I will say that freedom is priceless and no one should ever be forced to give it up but freedom is something that lives in our hearts.

    If Cuba was true to it’s socialist roots and continued to fight for its people at the same time giving them physical freedom to come and go, and political freedom…for example a Socialist Democracy, Cuba would be an amazing nation.

    One Love


  71. Follow up post #71 added on May 09, 2008 by carlos Burrowes

    Miami, Florida, USA, mayo 9, 2008
          “Todo lo que brilla no es oro.”
    Yo estoy completamente de acuerdo con usted que todos los humanos sean iguales.
    Claro esta que es una gran cosa, además de ser una situación ideal un país donde exista medicina y educación socializad y al mismo tiempo una verdadera democracia.

    Desgraciadamente lograr una situación ideal es difícil
    Hay científicos que tratan de hacer el motor eléctrico lo mas eficiente que es posible. Es decir que la eficiencia sea = 1. Donde se convierte toda la energía que usa el motor en trabajo y siempre hay pérdidas.
    Hay pérdida en el rozamiento, hay pérdidas en el recalentamiento, hay pérdida en la resistencia del cable que se usa, hay pérdidas en magnetismos indeseables.

    El ser humano se puede decir que es una creación de Dios perfecta y por su pecado se imperfecciono y por eso las células que deberían permanecer y reproducirse a más jóvenes se envejecen por lo demás nada es perfecto por lo tanto:
    Estamos viviendo tiempos donde el que se dice socialista lo menos que es, es ser socialista.
    Estamos viviendo tiempos donde el que se dice demócrata lo menos que es, es ser demócratas.
    Estamos viviendo tiempos donde la oferta y demanda es corrupta, inflada y cuando se inflan los precios es una manera de robar con corbata.
    Cuando un dueño de negocio pudiendo pagar sueldos justos, paga a sus empleados salario de miseria esta robando con corbata.
    Estamos viviendo tiempos donde un gran % de personas tienen doble cara y doble vida.
    ¿Y cual es el centro del problema?
    La corrupción.
    La corrupción de los que componen el gobierno sea este socialista o capitalista.
    La corrupción de las capas educadas que siempre buscan alguna manera para acomodarse y vivir del cuento.
    Escúchenlo bien:
    Por lo tanto yo no estoy en contra de que al educado se le pague, pero también hay que pagar salarios altos y justos al obrero que hace el trabajo bruto y responsable porque solamente que el obrero común se presente puntual a su trabajo y gaste su tiempo hay que pagarlo y bien pagado y cuando no se paga el país empieza a sufrir de depresiones y por ultimo de recesiones económicas.

    Es mi humilde opinión que ya la corrupción en la actualidad, en gran % ya no se resuelve con guerrillas o con levantamientos armados, ni con socialismo, ni con sistema ideales de demanda y oferta.
    ¿Entonces como se puede reducir la corrupción?

    Es verdad que la corrupción se disminuye con:
    a. Con la legalización de partidos de oposición.
    b. Con la legalización de prensa libre de oposición independiente.
    c. Con un gobierno que actué como arbitro para balancear la demanda y oferta.
    d. Con elecciones verdaderas, entre verdaderos opositores donde el votante en la urna decida lo que quiere.
    e. Involucrar más las iglesias cristianas en servicios sociales.

    Pero se necesita algo más para controlar la corrupción y en mi opinión como único se soluciona esa corrupción cuando hay tanta población es:

    Con desarrollos tecnológicos.
    Para dar unos ejemplos:
    La electricidad y lo que trajo la electricidad cambio este planeta.
    El motor de combustión cambio este planeta.
    La computación cambio este planeta.
    2- Es mi opinión que se necesita hacer cambios urgentes de sistemas tecnológicos antes que políticos.
    ¿Porque digo esto?
    El alza del petróleo que tiene varias razones para su causa esta creando un efecto domino de gran penuria a las poblaciones del planeta.
    Ejemplo Sube el precio del petróleo conlleva que sube el precio de la transportación y esto conlleva el aumento del precio de los alimentos.
    El propietario sube el precio de los productos pero se hace el bobo o ignora subir el salario al obrero y ahí ya esta robando con corbata.
    El dueño del inmueble sube el doble en % a la inflación y ahí ya esta robando con corbata.

    El alza del precio del petróleo esta haciendo imperioso que aunque signifique quitarle el tete de la boca a un determinado % de ricos, es cambiar por lo menos un 30 % de los autos a otros sistemas de combustión para que exista verdadera competencia como por ejemplo
    a. La producción y utilización del Hidrogeno para la combustión de los carros.
    b. Utilizar mas de la electricidad en los automóviles en sustitución del combustible, lo que se llama (autos mixtos.)
    c. La utilización de balones de gas como combustible para los carros.
    d. La utilización del alcohol en la combustión de los carros.
    3- Cuando Jesús Cristo murió en la Cruz del calvario para salvar a los que en el creen produjo cambios en este planeta.
    4- La unión de países como ejemplo tenemos “la Unión Europea”  es un gran factor para el desarrollo y la disminución de la corrupción.
    Pero en el caso de las uniones de países quiero aclarar:
    Que una unión Europea tipo caudillo Hitler no es buena y con la segunda guerra mundial se demostró que uniones tipo caudillo Hitler no son buenas.
    ¿Y porque yo digo eso?
    Es mi opinión que esa unión que quiere el presidente Sr. Chávez de la Republica Bolivariana de Venezuela, que no es mas que la Gran Colombia es una unión caudillo tipo Hitler y puede conllevar a una guerra.

    Mi papa nació en Barranquilla Colombia, yo viví en Cuba, en Colombia, en Venezuela y ahora en USA como humilde trabajador, no como turista.
    YO quiero explicarle una cosa.
    USA es un país que es de demanda y oferta, es un país que esta en la actualidad padeciendo una crisis económica producto del alza del precio del barril de petróleo producto de la dependencia del petróleo extranjero.
    Producto de esa dependencia del petróleo se a puesto día a día mas difícil encontrar empleo en USA para el ciudadano de USA.
    En otras palabras el inmigrante ilegal que antes encontraba fácilmente trabajo en USA y mandaba remesas económicas a sus países, se la esta viendo mas difícil. Y cuando una situación es de crisis es lógico que el gobierno de USA de prioridad a los que son ciudadanos de USA legalmente.

    YO quiero explicarle una cosa con mi experiencia.
    Un sistema dictatorial como la actual isla de Cuba no es nada bueno pongámoslo como queramos ponerlo.
    En la isla de Cuba se esta maximizando en propaganda lo de medicina socializada y educación socializada para minimizar que existe una dictadura, para minimizar que no existe elecciones verdaderas entre verdaderos oponentes y así manipular la población que vive en la isla.
    Para darle un supuesto ejemplo: Una persona que tiene asegurada gratuitamente la alimentación, la educación y la atención medica pero tiene que estar en una cárcel donde le censura las noticias, le censuran la manera de pensar, no puede protestar. ¿Les va a gustar vivir así?

    Con mi experiencia de vivir en Cuba esa medicina socializada de Cuba es una media verdad.
    ¿Y por que digo que es una media verdad?
    Porque en realidad es una medicina de sancocho.
    ¿Y que es el sancocho en Cubano?
    El sancocho es el residuo de comida que se les da a los puercos.
    La realidad es que la medicina de la isla de Cuba es una medicina de propaganda, es una medicina de exportación, es una medicina para la adquisición de la divisa extranjera y la medicina que dan al cubano dentro de la isla es a cambio de mantener una dictadura.
    La isla de Cuba es una medicina de escaceses para el cubano de la isla, excepto que tenga dólares del pariente que vive en USA.
    La educación Cubana es una educación gratuita en la primaria donde se incentiva la propaganda de lo bueno que es el sistema dictatorial. Después dan solamente educación superior a los aduladores del sistema y durante mucho tiempo fue una educación de discriminación a los religiosos.

    Es verdad que en USA hay una enorme crisis con la atención médica, es una vergüenza y es verdad que la dependencia de USA al petróleo extranjero es una vergüenza.
    Pero prefiero mil veces un país geográficamente grande como es USA o la unión Europea o Canadá o el mismo Brasil o Colombia.
    Yo prefiero un país democrático geográficamente grande,  donde yo y mi familia puedan moverse para donde les de la gana, que una isla rodeada de agua como por ejemplo Cuba, Haití, Santo Domingo que es propensa a ser una cárcel y a dictadores.

    Es mi opinión que ningún sistema funciona, ni funcionara en Cuba, en el caso de Cuba lo único que funciona en mi humilde opinión es Cuba con un sistema igual que el de Puerto Rico.
    El Puerto Riqueño al ser ciudadano de USA por nacimiento se amplia su geografía y por lo tanto sus oportunidades.
    Y esta demostrado que el sistema como el que tiene Puerto Rico es superior.
    ¿Díganme ustedes ven golpes de estado o dictadores en Puerto Rico? ¿Díganme ustedes ven Puerto Riqueños en balsa o en chola como sucede en Cuba? ¿Ustedes ven en Puerto Rico que se pague con moneda devaluada como sucede en cuba?

    Es una vergüenza que después de la crisis del petróleo que existió cuando el presidente Sr. Carter no hayan existido dirigentes presidenciales en USA con visión del futuro en la cuestión del Combustible.
    Se sabe que el agua es H20, es decir tiene hidrogeno y con la hidrólisis se puede obtener hidrogeno.
    La combustión del hidrogeno con el oxigeno produce agua lo que reduciría el efecto “greenhouse.”
    ¿Y de donde se puede sacar electricidad para la hidrólisis? 
    Se puede obtener de la energía nuclear, se puede obtener de celdas solares, se puede obtener de hidro-eléctricas, se puede obtener del movimiento del agua en los Océanos.
    Es mi opinión que por lo menos un 30 % de los autos que circulan en USA se pueden convertir para utilizar Hidrogeno, o para utilizar alcohol, o para utilizar balones de gas.

    Me recuerdo yo trabajando donde usaban un “tomoto” que utilizaba un balón de gas como combustible y lo bien que funcionaba.
    Se puede apreciar que Brasil usa Alcohol en sus autos, de esa manera no teniendo que depender en gran % del petróleo extranjero

    Esperemos que USA en próximas elecciones tenga un nuevo gobierno donde adquiera la experiencia de la medicina socializada del Canadá donde existe una democracia, esperemos que USA cambie su sistema para los automóviles en la utilización de otros tipos de energía.

    En Dios confiamos.
    Simpatizante Cuba Estado Libre Asociado de USA.
    http://www.cubaanexa.blog.com
    También les recomiendo leer:
    http://www.solitariorodriguez.wordpress.com

    Atentamente.
    Carlos Burrowes.


  72. Follow up post #72 added on April 19, 2009 by pollo loco

    ok to say that puerto rico is better than cuba because of democracy vs communisim is the most ubsurd thing ever. 1 many many nations are “democratic” and have failed miserably as states.I lived in mexico which in my opinion is the freeist country on earth, people there are allowed to do as they please and the poverty level is 44%, same goes for most latin anmerican,and eastern european countrys. puerto rico has a poverty rate of 55% thats with the aid of the united states.many people there lack sufitiant health care,income and education that said cuba has the highest rate of doctors per capita in the world , they give free health care, free education to the collegic level, and reasonable housing,
    On the soverngty issue, I cant honestly see puerto rico as a “free” country because 1 they have never won thier independence. 2 they take pride on relying on american aid. 3 they are a territory of america so they can NOT even be considered a country
    One thing that nations take the most pride in is having thier soverngty, puerto ricans know they would collapse with out american aid , so they lack courage, intellegents, and for the sake of american security lack dignity


  73. Follow up post #73 added on April 19, 2009 by Larry Daley with 43 total posts

    In Cuba the average wage is about $20 a month, the famed health care is worse than that of any emergency room in the US, advancement into higher education is limited to those who show absolute allegiance to the Castro Brothers.


  74. Follow up post #74 added on April 19, 2009 by Chocoramo

    if you ever have the chance to see the DVD documentary of the Buena Vista Social Club(a famous cuban band), I highly recommend you watch it. Not only do you see how these “celebrities” live (not like the famous in the states) but you also get to see how they appreciate not having material things because it makes their lives better.

    pollo loco: good point about puerto rico…“free country”


  75. Follow up post #75 added on April 20, 2009 by Larry Daley with 43 total posts

    Chococorama:

    Yes I agree fully, the Cuban bureaucracy has the right to take all profits from the Buena Vista Social Club’s successful records and tours. 

    That way the musicians themselves maintain the purity and poverty appropriate to their dedicated calling. 

    And the Cuban bureaucracy have the right—given their elevated status in Cuban—society to sustain an appropriate level of comfort.

    This is because in Cuban society some simply deserve to be more equal than others.

    Thus I propose a formal recognition of the feudal status of Cuba where de facto royalty and nobility assure the fruits of privilege.


  76. Follow up post #76 added on May 01, 2009 by pollo loco

    80% of PRs have abondened thier so called beloved island for the united states due to economic hard ships 80%!!! thats more than 3 times the amount of people who have fled cuba. PR has been an american military test zone for more than 50 years, many PR natives have been diagnosed with metallic toxicity’s and rare cancers, all while america uses the island as a test zone for biological warfare? why hasn’t Pr become a state like hawaii? why have they not demanded a free non restrictive market that opens trade with other countrys? why not take a chance and become a free country that doesnt rely on american aid? My theory is that the island would collapse very quickly because PR lacks in resources and they dont have any other reliable souce of encome to offer the free market like technology oil, industry etc.. bottom line is PRs arent that stupid they know they cant survive without american aid and they will remain a territory for the near future.


  77. Follow up post #77 added on January 09, 2010 by Michael

    you are wrong pollo loco, Puerto Rico won independence many times,  Puerto Rico always wants to be independent, but they have seen how many cubans risk their lives trying to flee to Puerto Rico from the Castro regime, they see the poverty in Cuba, thye see how many mexicans cross the Border, how many Dominicans risk their lives trying to get to Puerto Rico, have you ever seen the Dominican Pupulation in Pr(about 1million), thats a lot of dominicans which that tell Puerto Ricans that Dr as an Independent Nation is not having a good time, what about the Cuban Exile in Pr(more than 20,00), if you say the Pr peole dont want Independence, why dont you read about Antonio Valero, he was a Puerto Rican Captain called el Liberador de America, he fought for Mexico, perhaps if you love Mexico so much why dont you go back there.


  78. Follow up post #78 added on February 08, 2010 by Roberto

    I find that with most Cuban and Puerto Rican comparisons there always seem to be a bit of hostility between the two people. If it’s not about the Salsa music it’s about the food and now the political system. Having been on both Islands I can tell you that the Puerto Ricans are the richest Island in the Caribbean and the poorest State in the Union. You cannot compare the Islands, Cuba is very poor economically.  Even though medical is considered to be free in Cuba, the reality is that it is at a very poor level when it comes to health care for all. The medical facility available to all Boricuas on the Island is far superior compared to those in Cuba. I can also assure you that for those who say the Puerto Rico has too much crime, the numbers are much higher in Cuba. I have both Cuban and Puerto Rican family members, I am not taking sides. The revolution chose the Cuban peoples fait. The Boricuas have had their own revolution with the US Government in fighting for their rights. Puerto Rican pride is probably the biggest that I’ve ever seen among Hispanics in the USA. This question serves no purpose. The Communistic Governments have fallen around the world it’s only a matter of time before Cuba’s falls. The many Cubans that live in Puerto Rico know the truth; you can’t live in the past. Puerto Ricans are better off being a part of the USA, same as Hawaii yet with the ability to keep their identity and heritage. It is sad to see what has become of Cuba, such a beautiful Island. Many things have changed on the Cuban Island; most Cuban Americans would not like what they will find. We live in the United States for a very good reason. We need not answer this question when we all know the answer. Puerto Rico is clearly the Winner. Freedom can never lose.


  79. Follow up post #79 added on May 03, 2010 by Burrowes with 1 total posts

    Cuba should be a USA state for many reasons.
    Cuban people must be American citizen by birth and, therefore, have the protection of the American constitution, if we ever want to see a prosperous Cuba and put an end to the political takeovers that have so plagued Cuban history.
    To start with, throughout Cuba’s past up until its present, we have had a small percentage of Cubans using the excuse of “an independent Cuba “to exploit and manipulate the other bigger percentage of Cuban.
    We have various examples of this: The Machado dictatorship, the totalitarian regimes of both the Batista and Castro families.
    Secondly, throughout Cuba’s long history of totalitarianism this continues to this day, that small percentage of the Cuban population did not respect the Cuban constitution. Simply put, they did what they wanted to do.
    Thirdly, millions of Cubans have already renounced their Cuban citizenship in front of a US judge to opt for US citizenship.
    Fourth, we have in the Great Miami, a territory of the USA, the first Cuban city as judged by the number of people living there who were born in Cuba or of Cuban descent.
    Fifth, after the Castro dictatorship has come to an end, we must create a new Cuba in which inequality is nonexistent. This inequality lies in the fact that Cubans with US citizenship have the freedom to move from place to place as they please, while those without US citizenship do not have this sort of mobility.
    Finally, it is important to remember that the Cuban flag was created by Miguel Teurbe Tolon for Narciso Lopez, the latter wanting Cuba to be a state of the US. The Cuban flag, then, was created with only one purpose in mind that it be the flag of a US state.
    So when the day comes that actual elections are held in Cuba, there will be, on the ballot, a candidate that wants Cuba to be a US state. If that candidate wins, the new Cuban government will begin legal proceedings with the USA to make the vision of a state of Cuba, and US citizenship for all Cubans a reality.
    IN GOD WE TRUST.
    BURROWES.
    BUFFALO FRONTIER, NY, USA
    http://foros.elnuevoherald.com/content/simpatizante-cuba-estado-libre-asociado-de-usa
    http://www.cubaestado.wordpress.com


  80. Follow up post #80 added on December 03, 2010 by Al

    Regarding the comparisons between PR and Cuba.
    Social, political, economic, educational, health care…where does one begin?  I would suggest that in many ways, Cuba does provide enhanced healthcare and education…period, and not much more.  Additionally, information in Cuba is controlled by the government…so one really does not know what the reality is anyway.
    I lived and grew up in PR for many years, a mainlander whose parents moved to Ponce, PR.  The island has NEVER enjoyed national sovereignty having gone from Spain to the USA.  It has a colonial history/legacy that in some ways is analogous to the slavery legacy of African Americans in the USA. 
    Is there a comparison?  Can there be a comparison?  Not easy, but let me give it a try.
    Historically, Cuba was ruled by Spain and then liberated.  Then it was ruled by dictators!  “Quitate tu que ahora voy yo” mentality prevailed.  Fidel Castro came into being by promising a better life for all.  How could you not be in favor of this change?  And what happened?  Castro wins the revolutionary war…and basically, you still have nothing.  Nothing gained or lost.
    Not so fast!  Yes, they have the highest levels of education in the world and compared to PR (the island is a microcosm of the USA’s educational system), definitely, Cuba is better.  They also have one of the highest post University graduation levels and educate many physicians.  These physicians provide medical services inside of the island and to the world.
    Economy?  In many ways, the economy of PR improved, especially once elections for self governed leaders took place in PR in the 1950’s.  “Manos a la Obra” or Operation Bootstrap comes to mind under the leadership of Luis Munoz Marin!  The economy and lives of many on the island transformed over the span of a single generation.  Has this progress been sustained?  Probably not!  We could blame it on many factors including corruption and many other social ills (high unemployment, crime, drug abuse).
    Political comparison?  Yes, PR enjoys the freedoms afforded under its own constitution and that of the USA.  Cuba is and continues to be not free…no freedom of press, freedom of speech…I mean, the basics.  It is also debatable that the information out of Cuba is propaganda and controlled by the government.
    At the end of the day…if Cuba had no embargo from the USA…would things be better?  I would suggest that yes…they would.  My concern about lifting the embargo is that USA residents would re-direct their attention to Cuba and away from PR and the economy in PR will tumble to levels unseen. 
    Is having your own self autonomous, sovereign and independent nation the answer?  Not really…cultural independence vs. economic/political independence is not the answer in what makes living in a place better or worse.  Having said that, I would suggest that is corruption, crime, unemployment were to be managed better in PR…most islanders would enjoy a higher standard of living. 
    Thank you…hoping to some day visit Cuba…LIFT THE EMBARGO!  Viva Puerto Rico y Cuba…de un pajaro las dos alas!


  81. Follow up post #81 added on December 03, 2010 by Larry Daley

    Cuban government “data”

    is strictly controlled

    and thus one cannot know

    how much is propaganda

    and much reality.

    Spot checks done by non-Csstro

    specialists suggest that the reality

    is far less than what is reported by the Cuban
    government, and then sent on to be reproduced

    without verification by international agencies


  82. Follow up post #82 added on April 07, 2011 by CFMDEV2000

    I am a first generation American which my parents fled to the USA, New York City.  Why don’t we see who prospers more in the USA, Cubans or PR’s ? Just go to any ghetto and see what you have, furthermore check the welfare rates.  Yes P.R’s , which I have many friends and yes there are many good people from P.R here in the USA who prosper legally, but that is a very small percentage.


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