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Posted March 31, 2010 by publisher in Castro's Cuba

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Brian Latell

Predictions that the Castro regime will soon collapse are popular again. Such speculation is fueled by many developments over the last year, including missteps by Raul Castro, stasis and confusion in the ruling gerontocracy, the rehabilitation of Ramiro Valdes, severe economic contractions, and rising international condemnations of Cuba’s appalling human rights record. And of course, actuarially, the odds favoring sudden changes at the top are steadily increasing. All of that adds up to greater uncertainty than before.

But predicting the demise of the Castro brothers’ regime has been a losing proposition for all of the 51 years they have exercised power. There have been a number of occasions when observers on and off the island let themselves be convinced that the final chapter was being written. I believed that once myself, as I have explained in After Fidel.

It was following the disappearance of the Soviet Union when Cuba’s economy plunged into what seemed then like terminal seizure. The largest riots the regime ever experienced broke out on the Malecon in Havana and in a few other places. Ox carts were substituting for transport vehicles; factories were shutting down for lack of inputs; and extended energy blackouts were provoking popular discontent. The leadership was in a state of geopolitical shock.

By any rational analysis, the economic survival strategy Fidel Castro decreed would never be able to compensate for the loss of the approximately $6 billion of annual Soviet bloc subsidies. But the regime did survive its worst economic crisis, the Special Period in Peacetime. There were few defections from the leadership, no known challenge to Castro from within the nomenclatura, and no outward signs of political tremors.

At other junctures, political and economic convulsions also appeared to some to be more than the Castros could handle. There was, for example, the chaos of the first few years of the revolution as rapid confiscations of property and brutal repression of dissent fueled the exodus of skilled and professional Cubans and their families. The Matos-Cienfuegos crisis in the fall of 1959 could easily have ended differently, that is, in violent conflict within the embryonic armed forces and the diverse July 26th Movement.

In the 1960’s there were numerous real or apparent challenges to the Castros’ hegemony. The 1962 “sectarian” purge, the 1964 Marcos Rodriguez affair, the “microfaction” purge later in the decade, and the defections of many prominent officials and scapegoating of others by Fidel Castro suggested at times that the regime was faltering. But of course, the hopes of those predicting its downfall came to naught.

In retrospect, the gravest of all the crises the regime has weathered probably occurred during the summer of 1989. Highlighted by dramatic show trials, executions, dangerous purges, suspicious deaths (suicide and heart attack?), and preposterously contrived charges of drug trafficking, the Ochoa-de la Guardia-Abrahantes affair may some day be known to have been the closest the Castro brothers have ever come to a genuinely regime-threatening crisis. They were playing with fire when they ordered convulsive purges in the Ministry of Interior (MININT). And their frantic behavior during those tense weeks are evidence enough of how grave a backlash they thought might materialize.

Juan Antonio Rodriguez Menier, a late 1980’s defector from Cuban intelligence who has written about the DGI and the Ministry of Interior, has commented on the fateful summer of 1989. “Internal opposition has been serious in the past,” he has said, “proven by the execution of (General Arnaldo) Ochoa & the imprisonment of nearly 200 MININT officials who were opposed to Castro and were almost to the point of conspiring to overthrow him.”

Rodriguez Menier explains that “the old generation of MININT leaders long contemplated a conspiracy against Fidel, but in the end, they saw no viable alternative. While the armed forces are largely ‘yes sir types,’ the MININT consists of the most intelligent Cubans who are also the best informed.”

It has been more than twenty years now since the MININT purges and executions, plenty of time for Fidel and Raul Castro and their subalterns to have repaired the damage done. But Rodriguez Menier’s judgments may nonetheless have relevance to Cuban conditions today. An elite-led rebellion or challenge to the doddering regime will be more likely than one that spontaneously arises in the streets. But predicting it will continue to be a reckless undertaking.

END

Dr. Brian Latell, distinguished Cuba analyst and recent author of the book, After Fidel: The Inside Story of Castro’s Regime and Cuba’s Next Leader, is a Senior Research Associate at ICCAS. He has informed American and foreign presidents, cabinet members, and legislators about Cuba and Fidel Castro in a number of capacities. He served in the early 1990s as National Intelligence Officer for Latin America at the Central Intelligence Agency and taught at Georgetown University for a quarter century. Dr. Latell has written, lectured, and consulted extensively.

________________________________

The CTP, funded by a grant from the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), can be contacted at P.O. Box 248174, Coral Gables, Florida 33124-3010, Tel: 305-284-CUBA (2822), Fax: 305-284-4875, and by email at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).
—————————————- Havana Journal Comments—————————————-

One thing is different now than during the Ochoa and Special Period, Fidel Castro is not the President and he is not rallying the country behind his (failed) ideology.

Raul is CERTAINLY not a leader that people look up to for hope. He is a manager at best. 

  1. Follow up post #1 added on March 31, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    The end of the Castro regime has already taken place, no one person can replace Fidel Castro so it is now others who continue to navigate the revolution though all the mines it faces. I do not think there is great disagreement in which direction to go. In order for a rebellion(elite or otherwise)there needs to be a reason to rebel, not to mention a leader to rally the people.  So far despite the decades long embargo with its resulting economic pressures on the Cuban people, despite millions of US taxpayers dollars spent yearly to promote(subvert government) “democracy”, despite media assault, and all other of Dr. Latell’s listed significant crisis, Cubans and their revolution continues.  Considering these circumstances I would not label it a “failed ideology” but a successful one, and one that despite all the outside pressures to crumble it,  people have been educated, health care reaches all Cubans,  Cubans are known and respected world wide for their doctors, artist, sports, a world class biotechnology industry, aid to countries in crisis, aid to liberation movements such as in Angola and South Africa and for resisting the pressures and assaults from the powerful neighbor to the north.  Why would the Cuban people rebel against a revolution that has liberated their country and pluck it out of the clutches of foreign domination and allow them to reach as a people levels that are dream of by many people throughout the world and even here in America.  Why would Cubans want to return to subservient status and loose all the gains attained by sacrifice?


  2. Follow up post #2 added on April 01, 2010 by jmw1 with 62 total posts

    “return to subservient status and loose all the gains attained by sacrifice?”

    Don’t you mean “return to freedom and prosperity and regain all the wealth, property, businesses and rights stolen by the Castro ‘sacrifice?’


  3. Follow up post #3 added on April 01, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    What you say is perhaps true for the Batista government, the Mafia and exploiters of the sugar workers (among others) but not so for the vast majority of Cubans.  As an example the sugar barons lived lavishly,  obscenely rich,  while the workers earned a meager wage the three months of the sugar harvest. (A disparity more akin to the displaced workers at banks here and the hundreds of million of dollars that the executives of those financial institutions earned.)  Thereafter for nine months the sugar workers practically starved.  I would not characterized returning to that state as “return to freedom, regain all the wealth, property, businesses, and rights stolen by the Castro sacrifice”.  Your statement would not hold true for the majority of Cubans.  Take a trip through Central America and see the abject poverty, illiteracy and lack of healthcare and freedom still prevalent this day and age.  These countries do not even have 50 year economic embargo against them by the most powerful nation in the world which also controls the most used world currency.

    As to freedom and stolen rights, again the only rights and freedom that were stolen and taken were those of the members of the dictatorship, the US(who did whatever it wanted in Cuba).  That is just to name a few.

    Since Cubans do not want to return to those times, nor do they want the US to be their pro-consul, it is unlikely that there will be any significant change.  Perhaps less so if they take a look at the US,  for while we here in the US still struggle with hunger, illiteracy, homelessness(just look at your mail and the grocery cashiers requesting funds), as well as economic instability(home foreclosures, unemployment) crime, drugs, lack of healthcare, college tuition, and a multitude of other problems, it is unlikely that Cubans will revolt to end up in that type of society.  Of course maybe a little bit of marketing and propaganda will spark a revolution.  The interesting thing is that Cubans are well informed despite the claim outside as to press freedom and are well aware who these so called “dissidents” are and the payments and perks received.  I doubt any of these people will lead any kind of revolt.  Those in the military and government are well aware of how Cuba has survived the onslaught of aggression from the US and the Miami terrorist.  Cuba is well aware that once left alone, once the aggression stops the country will be better able to flourish.  The US on the other hand seems adamant in making it fail even at the cost of limiting freedoms here in America and violating some of the same principles we accuse Cuba of violating.


  4. Follow up post #4 added on April 01, 2010 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    Thanks for stopping by Fidel. Glad to see you are well enough to continue your propaganda.

    This time it is different. No one listens to what you say any more.

    You are an old man who is afraid to come out in public. You do not have the brain washing powers you once had.



    Cuba consulting services

  5. Follow up post #5 added on April 01, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Publisher, you are welcome.  Perhaps you may want to educate me as to what people want to listen to.  Comment #2 for instance?  Ignoring the past so we repeat it in the future?  Misunderstanding Cuba and its people?  Or just not airing the hard truths about our past and current policies?  Truly, I respect your stand on the embargo and your support of LAWG.  I support the changes that President Obama has done with respect to family travel as well as remittances. (no thanks to congress)  I am appreciative of Congressman Delahunt’s work on Cuba and support the bills pending in congress with respect to trade and travel, but I am concern about the inaccurate media-blast against the island as well as the millions of dollars used to “promote democracy” in Cuba by many elements that poorly understand that country or think the country should return to the nostalgic era of the 1950’s as referenced by comment#2.  In general I am concern about the US interference in Cuba that has served to worsen and not improve situations in Cuba.  In that light who is continuing propaganda, who is old, and who is attempting brainwashing?  Well, I’m all for a new approach and discard the old discourses. Who knows perhaps the Administration’s approach will help both countries.  The cooperation between Cuba and the US on aid to Haiti may be the start of a new relationship.


  6. Follow up post #6 added on April 01, 2010 by jmw1 with 62 total posts

    #3
    “As an example the sugar barons lived lavishly,  obscenely rich,  while the workers earned a meager wage”
    Don’t you mean the Castro barons?

    ‘Take a trip through Central America and see the abject poverty, illiteracy and lack of healthcare and freedom still prevalent this day and age’
    Correct, mostly all under socialist governments.

    ‘Cuba is well aware that once left alone, once the aggression stops the country will be better able to flourish’
    Correct, left alone from the Castro aggression on the Cuban people.


  7. Follow up post #7 added on April 01, 2010 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    jmw1,

    Don’t worry about jmwave, he’s just doing his job for his boss.

    They need to have their presence out on the internet spreading their propaganda.

    Don’t try to reason with him and other Fidel lovers. You can’t fight propaganda with reason.



    Cuba consulting services

  8. Follow up post #8 added on April 01, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Fortunately my boss is fairness and justice.  What I learned form my parents, Southern Baptist Churches,  Ruston Academy(an American School in Havana), significant travels and exposure to Cuba’s various provinces before, after the revolution and on multiple visits there these past 25 years as well as Jr and High School, in Miami and California, Universities in Louisiana, Texas, and California,  and the fundamental values of this country exemplified among others by Thomas Jefferson and inscribed in his memorial in Washington, DC. Not to mention the travels throughout most of the states of the USA, Mexico, Western Europe, Northern Africa where I related with both the rich and poor of all those parts.  If this makes me a “lover” of Fidel and his employee, so be it.  It does not retract form the weigh of the facts.
    Actually I thought this was a bonifide forum where discussions would be civil and based on facts and as the Introduction to Havana Journal states “everyone form Castro to Bush post their comments.  I guess the introduction forgot to add a warning…where you may be insulted if we don’t like your comments.

    The socialist governments of Central and South America have just recently begun to change the social and economic ills of centuries past.  I have spoken woth conservative non-political missionaries how have spent years ministering in the jungles of Costa Rica and Nicaragua, as well as multiple “illegal” aliens from Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala.  The dismal state of affairs for these people in 2010 is awful, but hey why worry about poor Latin America, let’s instead use millions of dollars to foster discord in Cuba and blockade them economically to add to their travails.

    As to the Castro barons they were relatively poor compared to the Lobos and Fanjuls, and the Cuban Sugar Company, not to mention United Fruit.  Why not throw in the Cuban Telephone and Telegraph Company, The Cuban Electrical Company. (nothing Cuban about it since it was owned by US interests).  Welcome to free Cuba.

    Propaganda, my friend, is precisely dispelled by facts.  None have put forth any facts.  Illiteracy, hunger, foreclosures, unemployment, millions of US taxpayers money yearly squandered to “promote democracy” in Cuba, US aggression as in the Bay of Pigs, paid dissidents, economic embargo as a specified US policy to cause Cubans to rebel, terrorist groups in Miami.  Maybe is why there is so much opposition by the Cuban Lobby and its PAC to travel to Cuba.  Why then Americans could see for themselves that the Demon Castro and Island Prison are just made up and all they have heard in the US media for many years was just that disinformation and propaganda.  Hurray for US free press. As Jane Kirkpatrick once told me…“sure we have free press, the press is free to print what they want.  Not much media coverage about the Five Cubans in US jail for exposing terrorist groups in Miami apprehended after Cuba gave the FBI information about the groups and the FBI under Hector Pesquera at the time apprehended the anti-terrorist instead of the terrorist.  USA facts, not Castro propaganda.

    To reason you must use facts not propaganda, but perhaps you were referring to the “facts” given by the Miami Herald, Radio/TV Marti, Wall Street Journal, Otto Reich and the Bacardi Interests,  Miami radio and TV stations, Fox News, and who knows, Havana Journal?


  9. Follow up post #9 added on April 01, 2010 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    I guess I should get my facts from Granma and take all that to be the truth.

    Why do Communist countries repress their people and the media?

    Because Communism doesn’t work and the governments know that.

    So, please, give me a break with your education and “well balanced” bullshit.



    Cuba consulting services

  10. Follow up post #10 added on April 01, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Wow. I guess as Jack Nicholson said in the movie “A Few Good Men” ... ‘you can’t handle the truth’.  None of it comes from Granma but form US documents including those declassified from the CIA and FBI as well as numerous media publications like US News & World Report and The Chrisitan Science Monitor as well as The Miami Herald, Orlando Sentinel, Baltimore Sun, Washington Post, New York Times, Wall Street Journal and other commie rags corrolated with Foreign Affairs, Newsweek, Time Magazine, LA Times and with first hand knowledge and experience.  Just the facts.  Sorry to rain on your propagandistic parade.


  11. Follow up post #11 added on April 01, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    “Walter Lippman” spamming with his pro-authoritarian drivel. This troll pops up all the time on Cuba related articles, and injects his cut and paste comments of “understanding” and “respecting” authoritarian socialist Cuba.


  12. Follow up post #12 added on April 01, 2010 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    He’s been around for quite a while.



    Cuba consulting services

  13. Follow up post #13 added on April 01, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    “propagandistic parade”

    the pot calling the kettle black


  14. Follow up post #14 added on April 01, 2010 by jmw1 with 62 total posts

    jmwave,
    Perhaps you should take a good look at the reports in http://www.therealcuba.com Then come back here and explain what external events, actions, and policies by other countries have caused what you see.
    By the way, this forum is about Cuba.
    You constantly talk of other countries with a wonderful talent of overstating the obvious.


  15. Follow up post #15 added on April 01, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    No Walter Lippman here guys…


  16. Follow up post #16 added on April 01, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Correcting misinformation with facts is far from propaganda. Try it on for size,  comming back with passé with old anti-commie propaganda. Your arguements are as bankrrupt as the policies they support


  17. Follow up post #17 added on April 01, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    “passe old anti-commie propaganda”

    “passe old pro-commie propaganda”

    potato=potato

    You’re no different, troll.


  18. Follow up post #18 added on April 02, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Rebolucion, The only different is that my potato is loaded with facts,  US at that,  and yours is with hot air.


  19. Follow up post #19 added on April 02, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    jmw1 I took a look at the web site and actually have seen all those reports.  Suffice to quote Silvio Rodirguez which is portrayed as another rat jumping off the Castro’s Titanic.  As the propaganda rag called the “Real Cuba” left the key statement of Silvio’s interview which has been widely published without it and has been left out of all other ones reproduced widely stated and I quote “But I(Silvio), that have 50 years living in Cuba, and that knows all this that has happened, continue to have many more reasons to belive in the revolution than to believe in its detractors”. I rather go with Silvio on that one than the propaganda blogs.

    No wonder, the so called “Ladies in White” are paid $1,500/month and supported by the terrorist in Miami (Santiago Alvarez and Posada Carriles) as well as the manufactured “dissident” the sadly dead Zapata,  a man that was nothing more than a common criminal with charges of exposing himself to children, aggravated assault and fraud among other charges,  and was never jailed for political or ideological factors nor even ever listed as a prisoner of conscience by US or other foreign organizations. Facts jmw1 not fiction.  I can see how falling for your own propaganda obscures your judgement.

    As to the Real Cuba rag and the numerous other web sites and blogs, good luck.  You can fool some people all the time but you cannot fool all the people all the time.  50 years is a long time and in that time 180+ nations have joined Cuba to vote against the US embargo in the UN, Cuba has diplomatic relations with everyone in this hemisphere except the US, Cuba has relationships with most other world nations, yet the main opposition comes form remnants of the Batista regime in Miami, militants and supporters of terrorist activities in New Jersey, paid dissidents and paid bloggers from USAID grants, and paid off US politicians by the Cuban PAC.  Facts form the US not from Cuba.  Public information in the US, not form Cuba.  No wonder the Cuban revolution has survived.

    Why not let Americans travel freely to Cuba and see for themselves.  What are we afraid of.  What we cannot trust Americans to judge for themselves?


  20. Follow up post #20 added on April 02, 2010 by jmw1 with 62 total posts

    #19
    You should take yourself, along with your ‘facts’ and opinions on a visit to Cuba, and engage in conversation with the locals. See how they accept your views, how welcoming they are to your fanatical following of Fidel.


  21. Follow up post #21 added on April 02, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    Walter Lippman…yawn. Cut and Paste left wing authoritarian cult worship.


  22. Follow up post #22 added on April 03, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    jmwave I have a question: If Cuba is such a great place and Fidel and Raul Castro such a good guys why you do not go back? Why did you left on the first place?


  23. Follow up post #23 added on April 03, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    For the same reason everyone does not live in the French Riviera.  The real issue is not if Cuba is good or bad or the highschoolish “America Love it or Leave it”, the issue is the criminal policies of the US against the Cuban people.  We choke them economically then critisize their economy, we tolerate terrorist attacks against the people and cuddle the terrorist in Miami and New Jersey yet have Cuba on a state sponsor terrorist list, we pay dissidents to have showy demostrations and spread misinformation and limit the freedom of Americans to travel so they can see for themselves.  The real issue is the anti-Castro industry that enriches itself with US tax money and complain about communism and government control while they control the media, we talk about the lack of democracy in Cuba and a mob of Miami Cubans stopped the vote count in 2001 in Dade County, we complain about press freedom an blow the legs off a radio announcer.  Those are the real issues.


  24. Follow up post #24 added on April 04, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    Sounds kind of strange, Cuba is NOT the French Riviera. I can understand that answer from a French, a British or a German but not from a Cuban.
    Cuba has been for long, long, long time politicized to the level that the majority of the people if not all that leave Cuba is because they do not like the Castro Government. As a matter of fact I have never heard of a Cuban that had left Cuba and suddenly loves Castro. You may be keen to move from Cuba mainly because you are looking for opportunities, better life etc, but at the end you do not like the Castro government and the whole package that it represents. 
    Generally Cubans that like Castro live in Cuba; otherwise it is a tremendous hypocrisy being a Cuban and from your Lay-Z-Boy in Miami determine that in fact ....well ....actually Castro is not that bad for Cuba and the Cubans. Those Cubans living on USD 10.00 a month….looks like they have a pretty good life…

    “Criminal US policies” that sounds like taken from the Cuban PCC pamphlet, perfectly in line with the Castro propaganda. The only criminal policies in Cuba are the ones that Castro has had in place for the last 50 years and counting. Over 20% of the Cuban population have left the island, many putting their own and their love ones existence in risk, during the last 50 years, does that ring a bell?
    Once again I would like to remind you that this forum is about Cuba, not about US, Italy or Japan. We are discussing how to make better the live of the Cubans and Cuba. There are signs of terrorism everywhere around the world including in Cuba, but here we are only discussing Cuba.
    I consider the embargo obsolete and stupid and should be removed. However not for the reasons you mentioned. You probably do not now that the embargo is actually a failed policy that had never worked, it has only worked in Castro’s favour. It is the instrument used daily by the dictatorship as an excuse to thrown hundreds of pacific people in jail for the only crime of thinking different while keep the whole population under a tight grip.
    I wonder why a Cuban that left Cuba knowing how the Castro regime works, would consider that throwing dissidents in jail and abusing pacific activists without any remorse, is right?


  25. Follow up post #25 added on April 04, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Feeble argument Yeyo which deserves no other response.


  26. Follow up post #26 added on April 04, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    Feeble response from your side that do not deserve any argument.


  27. Follow up post #27 added on April 04, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    jmwave ran out of cut and paste garbage from granma


  28. Follow up post #28 added on April 04, 2010 by jmw1 with 62 total posts

    Odd that pipesmoker and miamimoron normal comments are absent on this topic.
    jmwave feels outnumbered in his defence, devotion and love of Fidel.


  29. Follow up post #29 added on April 04, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Sorry to disappoint you guys but no need to cut and paste.  There are plenty of arguments against bankrrupt anti-Cuban policies, policies that turn American values upside down, policies that have failed over and over the past 50 years…


  30. Follow up post #30 added on April 04, 2010 by jmw1 with 62 total posts

    Should we continue to acknowledge jmwave? or perhaps just ignore him?
    jmwave, I suggest you move to North Korea where you will feel completely at home. Unfortunately, you will not be allowed to complain about the conditions, but you can sing a praise to Fidel every day. Too bad nobody wil hear you, they crush freedom of speech there too.


  31. Follow up post #31 added on April 04, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    Funny, jmwave, but I do agree with you on the last point. The US policies towards Cuba have failed during the last 50 years. That is why I favor getting rid of the embargo and the travel ban, so Castro would not have any other major excuse and the US people would be able to travel to Cuba to see with their own eyes the exploitation of the Cuban people by their “revered” bearded and senile leader.


  32. Follow up post #32 added on April 05, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    It’s a start Yeyo, I agree that it will deflate any embargo and travel argument and people would be able to see for themselves and Cuba will not be able to blame any economic shortcommings on the US embargo.  On thing is for sure,  lifting the embargo will not hurt the Cuban people.


  33. Follow up post #33 added on April 05, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    jmw1, I thought Havana Journal was an open forum where comments form Fidel Castro to George Bush were welcomed.  I guess is “America Love it or Leave it” that is,  democracy only if you agree with what it is said.  Guess you like telling people what to do, what to think, and where to go.  Quite democratic.


  34. Follow up post #34 added on April 05, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    jmwave is a pair of clown shoes.

    I like how he sarcastically calls this forum “democratic”, but if it was up to him, just like his Cuban masters, he would block any commentary that is not smothered in pro communist sycophancy.

    “Guess you like telling people what to do”= like Cuba’s fascist leadership?
    “What to think”= like the forced communist indoctrination and banning of any non state media geared towards socialism?
    “Where to go”= like the good communist permit you need in order to travel as a Cuban? like the invisible apartheid wall that Cuba’s fascist leaders had for Cubans for tourist hotels? like the fact that Cubans are banned from freely traveling?

    Cuba is not a closed society. Tourists travel to Cuba all the time from all over the world, and Cuba already buys plenty from the United States.

    Left wing fascists like you advocate the end of the embargo because you know that it will not change a thing. It will just be more credit access to the government, and you admitted that “it will not hurt the Cuban people” aka “the Cuban government”.


  35. Follow up post #35 added on April 05, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Name calling,  fantastic argument rebolucion.


  36. Follow up post #36 added on April 06, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    Typical reply when you don’t have a rebuttal.


  37. Follow up post #37 added on April 06, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    I guess we do agree, name calling is the typical reply when one does not have a rebuttal.


  38. Follow up post #38 added on April 06, 2010 by jmw1 with 62 total posts

    It appears we need a new topic for a the next argument!........


  39. Follow up post #39 added on April 07, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    I gave you a full reply, to which you gave picked out the name calling. That’s as infantile as you can get little bro.


  40. Follow up post #40 added on April 07, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    that is because the rest of it was junk rebolucion


  41. Follow up post #41 added on April 07, 2010 by Gringo Cubano with 42 total posts

    New poster here…  FYI, I am a gringo with extensive experience in Latin America.  Also a Christian who lived in Africa as a missionary kid, so I have seen the extremes of 1st world USA capitalism and 3rd world poverty & disfunction.

    While I understand the righteous indignation jmwave has toward despotic regimes in Latin America and some of the abuses of capitalism over the years, I do think that jmwave is evading answering a legitimate point made by rebolucion.  jmwave wants freedom to post pro-Castro, pro-revolution, anti-US information that smells alot like what Granma publishes (but some of which may be true).... but he objects to others throwing back the Cuba-lobby talking points and name-calling.  Sorry, freedom of speech is a 2-way street and interesting that in Cuba we could not be having this discussion on-line, much less in person, without fear of reprisal, intimidation, or imprisonmen. 

    jwave, please respond to how you defend the Castro’s supression of basic human rights?  (speech, press, thought/conviction, right to assemble, labor unions, etc.)  Your Jeffersonian education and outlook would surely demand basic liberty which Castro and his cronies clearly do not allow (unless of course you agree with them and fully support the one-party, no choice regime).


  42. Follow up post #42 added on April 07, 2010 by Gringo Cubano with 42 total posts

    forgot to include freedom of religion, which Castro selectively allows according to his whims and fancies… freedom of conscience follows suit and is impossible to obtain if you don’t have the other freedoms (speech, assembly, etc).  I know jmwave will point out the ‘freedoms’ of free health care and education and I will NOT argue that those are wonderful benefits of a communist system, however, at what cost do we ensure everyone is healthy and educated?  Healthy and educated for what?  To live a life where you cannot worship your God and where you cannot speak your opinions or thoughts without fear of losing everything?  So you are a healthy and educated prisoner of a political machine….

    The USA is not perfect, but at least we can disagree without one of us ending up behind bars just because we did not say what the govt wants us to say & think.


  43. Follow up post #43 added on April 07, 2010 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    Hey Gringo,

    Welcome. Sounds like you will fit in well here. We welcome all comments.

    Regarding “jwave, please respond to how you defend the Castro’s supression of basic human rights?  (speech, press, thought/conviction, right to assemble, labor unions, etc.)  “

    Can I try and answer for him?

    All dissidents and other anti-revolutionaries are paid agents of the Empire and are therefore common criminals who are jailed or restricted.

    Therefore, there are no human rights violations in Cuba. Just criminals who need to be jailed, oppressed, repressed and depressed.

    jmwave, how did I do? Something like that?



    Cuba consulting services

  44. Follow up post #44 added on April 07, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Nice monologue Publisher but no substance.  Gringo, As to religious repression in Cuba you may need to take a little trip there and see flourishing churches even getting help form the Council of Churches, Southern Babtist Convention and private citizens visiting Cuba. 

    Publisher, I would not worry so much about Cuba and worry about the 30 million hungry people here in the US, the illiterates, the unemployed, those loosing their homes, the great homeless population, those without health care,  and the largest prison population per capita in the world, not to mention the atrocities commited at the US Naval Base in Guantanamo Cuba.


  45. Follow up post #45 added on April 07, 2010 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    I forgot rule #2 of good Communist propaganda.

    Rule #1, blame the US.

    Rule #2, deflect the argument.

    Rule #3, NEVER blame Fidel.

    Sorry I missed that second rule.



    Cuba consulting services

  46. Follow up post #46 added on April 07, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    Anyone of the 30 million hungry people in the US lives twice better than 95% of the population in Cuba. You should enjoy a long stay overthere to learn what means hunger.


  47. Follow up post #47 added on April 08, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Fat chance, apperantly you have not seen the people in the Rescue Missions, Salvation Army, Soup Kitchens, and many many more places.  Those are the lucky ones try those living under bridges, and street people…sorry Yeyo.

    Publisher deflections like yours won’t even stop a soft pitch from a little girl.


  48. Follow up post #48 added on April 08, 2010 by publisher with 3905 total posts

    Why don’t you stop changing your user id and use your real name for once?

    Aren’t you proud to fly your Fidel flag?



    Cuba consulting services

  49. Follow up post #49 added on April 08, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    Do you know that there are also bridges in Cuba…..you should check under. There are no Rescue Missions, Soup Kitchen, Salvation Army’s or any of those US niceties in Cuba. 

    Do you know what means “llega y pon” ? check it out in your dictionary, not sure there is any translation to that. That is the name that Cubans had given to houses made overnight with cardboard walls and roof made of metal transit signs or tires. No electricity, running water or….fan in a country where average temperatures run around 35 degrees Celsius.

    Do you know what is working on sugar plantations bare footed? And for lunch having a glass of water with sugar? That had been happening in Cuba for the last 50 years.


  50. Follow up post #50 added on April 08, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    You mean the first 50 years of the Yankee-controlled republic right?  I did not know you worked under those conditions for the Sugar Cuban Company, are you that old?

    Publisher, same user ID, no changes.

    Perhaps we concentrate so much on Cuba so that our short comings are not entertained.


  51. Follow up post #51 added on April 08, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    I realize that there may have been something of that on the old republic. But that is no excuse to still have barefooted people working on the sugar plantations in the 21 century right?


  52. Follow up post #52 added on April 08, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    The real Guantanamos are the Cuban prisons that have been there since the robolucion, which are also off limits to the International Red Cross.

    Walter Lippmann is on a troll parade. His sycophancy is bar none.


  53. Follow up post #53 added on April 08, 2010 by jmwave with 21 total posts

    Yeyo, I can’t testify as to the actual conditions in the sugar cane cutting but can testify as to the conditions in the farmlands and villages.  They do not represent lack of electricity, housing or water.  I have seen a drastic improvement in the living conditions of campesinos in the countryside.

    Rebolucion, I have no idea my comments have to do with Walter Lippmann, however the only Guantanamo type jail in Cuba is controlled by the US.  Rubber hoses up the nose of prisoners refusing to eat, dogs, intolerably loud music, stress conditions and more are characteristic of what went on in the US Naval Base in Guantanamo,not what goes on in Cuba.  We should be concern with what our government does and not what Cuba does.  Most countries have direct and full relations with Cuba and their view of what happens in Cuba is far form the anti-Castro and anti-Cuban view propagated here in the US and by the paid groups in and out of Cuba.


  54. Follow up post #54 added on April 08, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    You have a completely distorted idea of what the live in Cuba is. You may have been in a “nice village”. However I have worked in the country side and can tell you that lots and lots of people still do not have electricity and/or running water. Lots of kids that had enjoyed a TV. In fact to find lack of electricity and running water you do not need to go that far, you can found it in some places in Havana.


  55. Follow up post #55 added on April 09, 2010 by MiamiCuban with 87 total posts

    Just for the record, I visited the countryside all the way out in Pinar del Rio (from from any city).  Although the water was cut at certain times in the day, every house in the neighborhood did have running water.  I can’t vouch for other areas.


  56. Follow up post #56 added on April 26, 2010 by troy with 2 total posts

    Jmwave,

    Thank you for the enlightened, intelligent opinions. I’ve managed to read through much of the posts and I have to agree with your ideology far more than the Newt Gingrich types.

    Its beyond me- beyond my comprehension why people stick to antagonistic, polorized views of the world. None of these ideologies is the actual truth- the truth lies in between the extremes.

    Cubans need to be proud of the stand they have made against American imperialism. American policy of the 1950’s was essentially economic colonialism, and the arrogance of those who deny the facts astounds me. That being said I honestly believe that the world today is less about colonization and more about profit making. I wish Barack and Raul could find enough common ground to swallow respective pride- start afresh. Cuba could and would benefit from investment, as would the US. Develop a wind powered electric system and implement the worlds first economy based on the electric car. Where else could it be done so effectively? A market of 11 million consumers, so close to US shores. A great experiment with tremendous profit making potenial for America while potentially ushering in a new era of prosperity and high tech jobs for Cuba. Win win- and both sides keep their pride intact. The problem with the world is too many angry people and too few people with vision.


  57. Follow up post #57 added on April 26, 2010 by robolucion with 33 total posts

    Posters like Troy and Walter Lippmann fail to see the irony in their posts, when they call our views polarized and antagonistic, yet they parrot the polarized and antagonistic viewpoints from the Cuban government.

    I could care less what type of government the Cubans decide to have. What bugs me is that their current government is not of their choice, but rather a steaming pile of decaying bureaucrats and military officers. I think that Cuba would be a great place if it didn’t have this authoritarian structure. With examples like most of Europe and Canada, you can certainly have great social rights without a tropical stasi that censors all types of dissent.


  58. Follow up post #58 added on April 26, 2010 by MiamiCuban with 87 total posts

    Troy,
    You touched on a lot of truth here. 
    I think the problem lies with too many corporations being concerned only about the “bottom line,” something that has resulted in savage-capitalism that is draining the resources of our planet, destroying land and ocean and impoverishing far too many people.  If, on the other hand, corporations adopted a new platform for doing business and stopped thinking about profit only, then Cuba and other countries could have a chance at improving the quality of life for their people.  There is enough food and resources for everyone around the globe to live decently and to have enough food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, education, etc., without sacrificing the right to engage in business and free and fair trade.  There is a middle ground somewhere.  With respect to Cuba, I think Troy is right—it’s up to Barrack and Raul to find what that middle ground is.


  59. Follow up post #59 added on April 26, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    I cant not understand why so many people that have no idea of what is really going on in Cuba feels that the solution in Cuba lies with the US.
    The problems in Cuba begin and end with the Castros. Cuba is a dictatorship state that restricts all kinds of human rights on their citizens. Most problems would end once the government allows the normal worship of human rights.
    There are no corporations in Cuba but still people talk about corporations concerned with the bottom line.
    Well guess what… the only corporation in Cuba is the Castro Corporation and they are also concerned with the bottom line, squeezing the Cuban people all they can so they can keep the Cuban government (Castro’s) secret accounts in Switzerland and Chile ever growing.


  60. Follow up post #60 added on April 26, 2010 by MiamiCuban with 87 total posts

    Cuba’s problems (especially as they relate to the U.S.) need to be looked at within a much greater context rather than the same old obsession with the Castros.


  61. Follow up post #61 added on April 26, 2010 by Yeyo with 411 total posts

    Right and you should move to Havana instead of procaming that everything is ok with the Castros from your quiet yard in Miami.


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