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Embargo in place so Castro’s socialist model won’t succeed?
Posted: 07 July 2007 10:39 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Isn’t is true that the only real reason that the cuban embargo has been imposed is because the American goverment don’t want to see Castro’s socialist model succeed?

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Posted: 08 July 2007 04:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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If you mean a communist government that pointed nuclear missiles at the United States and one that represses freedom of speech, assembly and human rights then I would say yes.

Let’s not call Cuba a “socialist model”. It’s a communist state bordering on dictatorship like North Korea except Castro 1. can’t afford nuclear weapons and 2. knows that the US would stop any nuclear program that Cuba would start.

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Posted: 08 July 2007 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Unless I’m mistaken your tone sounds as though you fully support the embargo…

Nuclear missiles were pointed at the states and from what I can America had launched a botched invasion attempt. In response Castro wanted to launch a pre-emptive strike against America, the Russians pulled back at that point.  I donít think Cuba were entirely to blame for pointing Nuclear weapons at the States, itís called self-defence.

Also..

(Courtesy of Wikipedia)

“The crisis began in 1961 when the U.S. started deploying 15 Jupiter IRBM (intermediate-range ballistic nuclear missiles with a 1500 mile range and a flight time of about 16 minutes) near İzmir, Turkey, directly threatening cities in the western sections of the Soviet Union, including Moscow. On October 14, 1962 U.S. reconnaissance imagery revealed similar installations being installed in Cuba, as a response to the American threat. These photographs were shown to U.S. President John F. Kennedy. Some days later after a dramatic confrontation that threatened world peace, on October 28, 1962, Kennedy and Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev, with the intercession of the Secretary General of the United Nations, agreed that both sides would dismantle their installations.” (Quoted from Wykipedia)

I donít believe that 45 years after the missile crisis the embargo should still be in place. Yes, the world at that time was perilously close to an Armageddon scenario but times have changed. Cuba announced to the world that it was a socialist state immediately after the revolution. The embargo was initially implemented in response to Cubaís confiscation of US property; the owning of property would have contradicted the ideals of Castroís purist socialist principles. The embargo was later ratified by the US in order apparently to bring democracy to the Cuban people.

Iím unconvinced that America has any moral right to singularly impose and maintain an embargo on any country it sees fit and then trot out the same excuses.

To add more recent form to the discussion I have a problem with my government going to war and costing the lives of first rate British men and women, not to mention thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians as well as American servicemen and women on the pre text of WMD when we all actually know that the reason there is now a melt down in Iraq is because we are there as a wagging tail for Americaís oil interests. Cuba simply has the balls to stand up for itself and the American government doesnít like anyone who doesnít tow the line.

When everything is added together and we start really reading behind the lines things are rarely so cut and dried.

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Posted: 08 July 2007 09:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Edward, I do not support the Embargo and agree that it has gone on too long and gives Castro a reason to oppress his people if you ask me.

I don’t agree with the Iraq war either but when you say that pointing nuclear missiles at the US was self-defense for Cuba, you just put yourself in the “nut” category. I have NEVER heard anyone, even Fidel Castro say that that was self defense.

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Posted: 08 July 2007 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Hi Publisher

If I may use this analogy…

My next - door neighbour is 6ft 4Ē in height and weighs over twenty stone. He collects guns for a hobby, heís always mouthing off in an aggressive manner and demonstrating what a tough guy he is. Heís financially loaded and he and his kids demonstrate the worst kind of materialistic excess at everyone elseís expense. His gas guzzling Humvee is always running over my vegetable patch before being parked noisily in their driveway. Heís the kind of guy that drives around with his elbow resting on the sill.

I meanwhile live on modest means, me and my kidís bicycle everywhere but I donít want for anything except trying to teach my kids right from wrong and cultivating my vegetable patch.

One night my neighbour breaks into my house in an attempt to steal some jewellery that has huge sentimental value to me. Iíve got a mate who is in the military, he allows me to borrow a ballistic nuclear warhead and I park it on my vegetable patch before pointing it at the guyís house next door.

I didnít have to explain why I did it, suffice to say he realized I was no push over and didnít do it again.

We can all be nuts sometimes.  wink

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Posted: 08 July 2007 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Interesting analogy but doesn’t work for me. You left out the the fact that you stole your house, forced the current owners to leave and then moved into it with your crazy Russian brother in law.

The only reason the Embargo is still standing is because of a handful of right wing whackos in Miami and the fact that Florida is a Presidential swing state. It is not punishment for the Cuban missile crisis.

You might hate the US and love Cuba but that doesn’t make Castro a nice guy.

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Posted: 08 July 2007 12:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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The embargo was later ratified by the US in order apparently to bring democracy to the Cuban people.

Iím unconvinced that America has any moral right to singularly impose and maintain an embargo on any country it sees fit and then trot out the same excuses.

Edward,

I agree with you.

The embargo is more than immoral. Maybe you know that Clinton even “improved” the embargo by starting to fine europian countries for doing business with Cuba! Believe or not, some countries paid! Spain protested and Clinton temporarily stopped the “law” for six month. What is the situation now I do not know since I have lost contact with several people involved…What would you say about that….

I call it a dictatorship. Who in the USA is able to admit that USA is acting like a world police?  they ONLY want to bring freedem and democracy to each country in the world… and now also to fight terrorismus..

Talking about the missles.. Do you know the situation repeats now?  The USA wants to build radar base in Czech Republic and a missle base in Poland.  And Bush is talking about defence… hm… The US governments do not care people in the countries protest against it, they do not care the Russia protests! Vladimir Putin offered cooperation by using together the base existing in Azerbajdzan ( which was refused by US ).

I guess there is a chance the Russian president will start to discuss other base with Cuban government again…who knows..


Please, do not be surprised when called “Don”.  Don was a member here who was banned by Publisher ..... now he calls me Don… I got warning about being banned and my post was deleted by publisher.. Maybe you will not read this one for the same reason.
When publisher feels simmilar opinions like Don’s he believes that is him using different names…
This is a private forum for those who like to fight cuban regime. Sorry for mistakes… my English is bad.

Vlasta

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Posted: 08 July 2007 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Hi

I don’t hate America, I don’t hate anyone…all I see is an embargo that clearly doesn’t work and an ongoing impasse that doesn’t help anyone least of all the Cuban people. At least we have the opportunity to air our views in a constructive way without being criminalised for them. This is a democratic forum, I want the best for Cuba, I don’t want wars being fought under false pretences, I don’t want to be lied to, I don’t want people being locked up for non violent political dissent and I don’t want innocent people being killed or tortured in the name politics, power grabbing and religion.

Regarding my analogy, I took my house with the help and support of my peasant people as the previous landlords were a bunch of right wing corrupt ridden crooks who were lining there own pockets after they had affected a bloody coup to seize control. They certainly didn’t have the common good of the population at heart.

At the end of the day, something has to change and from what I can make out there are subtle changes going on right now.

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Posted: 08 July 2007 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Vlasta,

I always allow a range of comments so long as they are on topic. Since this topic is Embargo, pretty much everything is on the table so your posts will not be deleted but let’s not turn this into a “US sucks” thread.

And, keep the propaganda down to a minimum please, Fidelito grin

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Posted: 08 July 2007 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Fair point Rob, I love the site and we all want what’s best for Cuba..

Buenas Noches grin

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Posted: 09 July 2007 02:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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just my 2 centavos worth…..
I think the main reason the Soviets placed missiles in Cuba was to have a bargaining chip to get the Americans to pull theirs out of Eastern Turkey.  Kruschev wasn’t stupid - I’m sure he knew that there’s no way that the Americans would tolerate nuclear warheads aimed at US soil from that close.  And it worked - shortly after the Soviets pulled theirs back, the Americans dismantled their rockets from eastern turkey.

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Posted: 09 July 2007 09:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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The embargo is the best proof how US suks… and what is a fact cannot be propaganda….

Why US took the liberty to dictate their embargo to other countries? Nobody answers…...Why?

We all want to help Cuba….. yes, that would be the ideal situation. However, there is a lot of people that have private interest in Cuba: property!

And they are hiding that. That is what irritates me most.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com

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Posted: 09 July 2007 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Vlasta..

The film is exposive and powerful stuff…knowledge IS power, and mythology is indeed used to subjugate society. Sterring us back on track regarding Embargo?, in reality it’s a US blockade.

Edit out the less shocking parts of the film and you have food for every school in the world.

Ed

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Posted: 10 July 2007 11:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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The reason the US embargo WAS put in place was because Cuba nationalized many US businesses and private properties after the US government ordered American owned oil companies not to refine Soviet oil that was sitting in Cuban ports.
The reason why it is STILL in place is because Lincoln Diaz Balart, Ileana Ros- Lehtinen   hate the Castro boys and and they and their congressional cronies, and the exile lobby still retain the political muscle (albeit,it is starting to diminsh) in congress to prevent its removal

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Posted: 10 July 2007 06:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Publisher: you poor boy could not help yourself but to kick me out… O. K… coward.

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Posted: 10 July 2007 07:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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You are still posting. When you cannot get to the Havana Journal anymore, then you will be kicked out. When someone is banned they cannot even read the Havana Journal let alone post.

So, just for the record, you have one warning. The second warning puts you on a VERY short leash and the third violation for abuse (disrespecting this forum) then you are banned.

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