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Penthouse Condo for Sale in Havana, Cuba
Posted: 25 April 2009 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]
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We were advised that a Penthouse Condo is for sale in Havana, Cuba. For details in a two page document, view the file in the Cuban Real Estate section at our website: http://cubaninvestments.wordpress.com/

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Posted: 26 April 2009 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Very interesting.

Are you a broker on the deal? Are there more for sale or is this a very rare opportunity?

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Posted: 26 April 2009 10:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Person selling is someone I know…

It probably is rare to find a condo left over from last real estate
market when Cubans allowed it that are not owned personally, but
in a corporation in Panama…

The description on web site - http://cubaninvestments.wordpress.com/cuban-real-estate/

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Posted: 01 May 2009 12:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Cuban Property ownership is restricted to Cuban nationals only, as far as I know, and don’t expect it to change anytime soon (maybe with some exceptions for holiday developments) because property speculation goes against just about every principle of communism.
If you do manage to obtain ownership of a property, don’t expect ever to obtain official papers unless you are a cuban citizen.
Read the following articles
http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/articles/real-estate-in-cuba-hot-with-speculation-52426.aspx
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/world/americas/28cuba.html

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Posted: 01 May 2009 12:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Howertings…

you are wrong

how do you explain this resort development with ownership that is being developed out towards Varadero which was
posted on this very web site earlier??


http://havanajournal.com/business/entry/carbonera-club-opens-application-phase-for-new-vacation-resort-in-cuba/

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Posted: 01 May 2009 12:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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CubanInvestments,

That is a project that is in development, not even under construction.

What you are offering is a built condo that is for sale so the Carbonera Club project is a very different kind of opportunity.

Do you have any details of the title or purchase/sale restrictions? That’s a fair question since buying and selling condos in Cuba and property ownership are VERY different from most places in the world.

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Posted: 04 May 2009 11:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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First, the usual disclaimers - which I generally find so droll, yet, quite hypocritically, I am now engaging in myself.  I very rarely post on forum sites.  I am more of a lurker/troll.  When I do, it is generally to post a very targeted question.  Only on the rarest of occasions do I enter into a discussion on the Internet.  This topic, however, so caught my attention, that not only am I posting, but it caused me to stop and register for this site, in order to be able to do so.

DISCLAIMER - I am posting my opinion - nothing more, nothing less.  Always seek independent counsel for your business affairs.  I have been in the international real estate investment business for 26 years.  So, when I saw the PH for sale in Cuba, it naturally caught my eye.  It caught my eye, because as the NuWire article referenced by another poster states, current Cuban law does not “encourage” the sale of real estate.  It can be exchanged between Cuban citizens, with government approval, but not sold in the “traditional” capitalist sense.  I have found NuWire to be a relatively valid, credible and responsible source.  So, all I would caution is this: Selling and buying real estate - no matter what you’ve heard - is easy.  Getting clear, marketable, legally recognized and registered title…not so much.  So, if anyone is going to pursue this deal, it shouldn’t be about how lovely the property is…or the price…it should be about getting clear and marketable title that is legally recognized by the government authorities.  Otherwise, you may have bought and sold…but you will not legally own.  Bottom line…caveat emptor.

As a side note,  I have been predicting for 20 years what a “California Gold Rush” -like “madhouse” Cuba will be, if true international investing is allowed on a mass scale, whether by a government that is an extension of the current government, or by a new government.  This condo sale, even if legal, shows the extent of that scenario.  I am sure the unit is lovely, but asking almost half-a-million USD for condo in a country with the challenges Cuba faces, the probable lack of clear title, and the infrastructure limitations is clear evidence of the mania that will occur.  You can acquire likely a similar and more modern unit in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Ecuador or Peru for significantly less, all with greater certainty of title and much clearer legality (well…maybe exempting Argentina, where I would count my fingers after the final hand shake <wink>). Want to know the potential “real nightmare”?  So, the gold-rush wave to buy up every piece of dirt in Cuba eventually occurs…and everyone is secure in the knowledge that they will make millions…and…then…the lawsuits begin.  From who?  For what? The “for what” is to clear up “unsettled” title issues and the “from who” is the vast number of Cuban exiles and their families who will lay claim that land belonging to their ancestors was wrongfully appropriated in an “illegal act” and still belongs to them/their families.  Regardless of which side of the argument you buy, to ignore the ugly and very probable legal battles that will eventually ensue is to ignore a critical component of any Cuban real estate investment strategy.  Get a good lawyer primed for when the gold rush begins…and…remember…caveat emptor.

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“If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
—James Madison

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Posted: 04 May 2009 11:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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HGQ,

Good observation about current and future real estate opportunities in Cuba. We are always looking for experienced business people so have a look around in our Business forum here http://havanajournal.com/forums/viewcategory/8/ and our Business section here http://havanajournal.com/business/ .

You may also be interested to know about the Carbonera Club that is in development. They are planning to sell villas to foreigners.

http://havanajournal.com/business/entry/carbonera-club-begins-marketing-phase-of-new-resort-in-cuba/

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Posted: 04 May 2009 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Thanks for the comments.  I will certainly tool about the Business forum here and the Business section.  I am pressed for time over the next 2 weeks, so likely I won’t really “get into it”, until after that. I have been aware of the Carbonera Club project.  Without getting into an exhaustive discussion, so long as folks are buying “off-plan” (i.e., to be built real estate), it’s all “kosher”.  It’s not a “real and recordable” transaction until after the initial mass closing, after which the units get registered with, supposedly, clear title.  Like all “off-plan” projects, there are likely to be delays…sometimes lasting years.  My guess - the developer is gambling on some rapid changes to Cuban legislation as pertains to real estate transactions and recordable title.  If the changes do not take place…the developer is likely to “put-off” the project repeatedly, assuming they are a legit entity.  If they instead proceed…well…again…anything can be bought and sold…it just doesn’t always mean it is “legally owned”.  And that is aside from my “Cuban Gold Rush” scenario and the potential title-based lawsuit issues that are almost certain to follow.

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“If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
—James Madison

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Posted: 04 May 2009 12:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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“potential title-based lawsuit issues that are almost certain to follow”

I guess that’s when my CubaTitleSearch.com domain name will come in handy. grin

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Posted: 04 May 2009 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I can hear the gold coins dropping now…cha-ching…cha-ching…

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“If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
—James Madison

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Posted: 20 May 2009 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I won’t get into a long, ongoing discussion of the pros and cons of real estate in Cuba. But I will say a few things…

one - that the Cubans did sell condos with title back a number of years ago, stopped and have been buying them
back over the years (which kind of implies that there was title to the property or they wouldn’t have to buy it back)

two - when you talk about clear title, list one place on earth where you think you have absolute clear title…
Seems to me there is something called Eminent domain (United States), compulsory purchase (United Kingdom, New Zealand, Ireland), resumption/compulsory acquisition (Australia) or expropriation (South Africa and Canada) or land acqusition (India) in common law legal systems is the inherent power of the state to seize a citizen’s private property, expropriate property, or seize a citizen’s rights in property with due monetary compensation, but without the owner’s consent.

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Posted: 21 May 2009 01:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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I concur that there is no need for a long rebuttal period.  For the most part, we agree.  To your first point, I never said that title couldn’t be exchanged.  I acknowledge that Cuban citizens, with Cuban government approval, may be able to acquire/exchange real estate.  The same simply does not always (perhaps “ever”) apply to those that are not Cuban citizens.  As to your second point, we couldn’t agree more.  There is no such thing as a 100% “fool-proof” real estate investment environment, nor a title system that cannot be legally challenged, perhaps even breached.  It’s all relative degrees of “safety”, with some offering less risk…sometimes significantly less risk…than others.  However, no “risk free” investment environment exists, real estate or otherwise.  So, you might concur that in the end, it is all about relative risk and proper due-diligence.  I simply urged the latter, to minimize the former.

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“If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
—James Madison

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Posted: 31 May 2009 03:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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There is certainly no risk-free real state invesments but to compare the risks of such investments in Cuba to the other countries mentioned is simply non-sense.

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Posted: 31 May 2009 07:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Right. There is always a risk of price appreciation but a risk of ownership is unacceptable.

I know pipefitter will tell us that property can be taken by eminent domain and other means in the US but those are very old laws that don’t change because the President wants to change the rights of ownership as Fidel has done in the past.

Any updates on the “sale” of this property?

I would think there would be thousands of wealthy people from all over the world looking to buy a condo in Havana.

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Posted: 03 June 2009 08:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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does anyone know if the Carbonera area is currently accessible beach area for cubans? i have friends who live in havana that are sure all their water shore access is limited to the Malecon in downtown havana.

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